Hope for Racism in America, Texas and Arizona

I find this exchange notable and remarkable because it shows what appears to be something close to hatred, become a form of realization.

(SALEM, Ore.) - Many people who visit Salem-News.com simply know me as The Editor and they are aware of the fact that I speak up over comments that I don't agree with. We aren't here to publish opinion that equates to false propaganda.

But I publish a lot of comments that I don't like, and that is particularly true of my own stories. People who insult our other writers are generally not approved, because this isn't a name calling forum, and while it is easy to drop the bar in comments where things are more casual, it is still a bad idea, and that is true for myself also, sometimes.

I am against racism. I see it as a serious, continuing problem in this country and I am not wrong on that. I know about it personally, because I grew up in a rough section of LA and white kids were by far the minority. And even though other lighter complected students and I took our share of grief, we somehow managed to get through for the most part.

Today I look back at the days when I responded more quickly to "White Boy" than my own name, and I realize that it all probably happened for a reason. I didn't know it then. I did spend time around Hispanic and Caucasian kids on a personal level, probably about 50/50. Where I grew up other minority races were also very rare.

I have seen the results of racism in Mexico, I have seen it in France, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the list continues. Only if and when the day comes that this matter is set aside, will we ever know peace. All people are people, all are God's creatures. I am not especially religious, but God or Allah is the creator, and it is the same creator, just another name for the same supreme entity, in my view.

We were given challenges and have mostly failed to meet them in the right way, historically, though there have been great people and great advancements, but so much counter-productivity. I have every belief that a father's love for their children is always the same. As a father I have seen that in my travels.

The exchange below from 8 June 2010, stems from a story about a Mexican boy being shot dead by U.S. Border Patrol agents for rock throwing. My position is that it is a tragedy. No, the boy should not have been throwing rocks, yes he was breaking the law based on what we know. But no, shooting an unarmed teenager was a bad idea, and it has led to a lot of bad press.

I find this exchange notable and remarkable because it shows what appears to be something close to hatred, become a form of realization. I think many people have good hearts but culture, media, education in some cases, causes a lack of tolerance for human beings to emerge. I believe nationalism is a dangerous form of behavior. I don't believe we are supposed to have to worry about borders, we simply need to help erase poverty.

Who cares. I am glad he was shot. We need more extreme measures at the borders so we don't have to have new laws like in Arizona. Either tighten the borders or start requiring people to carry papers to prove they are not here illegally. My family comes from El Salvador, and I am an American who is very annoyed at this invasion force of hispanics. In any other country, a flood of illegal people entering your country would be an act of war. I say, let's goto war if that's what it takes to stop these people. Screw Iraq, let's pull back and start defending our own borders so we don't have to become a nation of nazi's having to carry papers. We have 2 choices. Tighten the border, or require papers. I'd rather have tight borders than a nazi state. "papers please" does not sound great to me, but a tough border sounds awesome.

Editor: Would you care if he was your 15-year old son? This: "I'd rather have tight borders than a nazi state", is the biggest contradiction I have ever read.

@Editor: Yes, I would care if he was my son. However, my son would not be at a border throwing rocks, specially if that border was a tight border that people knew was going to shoot at them if they came too close. Frankly, if he's dumb enough to throw rocks at a guard with a gun, then it's his fault. Doesn't matter what your using. If I shoot at a bear with a pellet gun, I would expect to get eaten. Just because he's stupid is no defense.

____________________________________________________________ Terry June 10, 2010 1:32 am | IP XXXXXXXXX

@Editor: Seriosuly, are you so messed up that you think ANYONE CROSSING A BORDER ILLEGALLY is not a criminal? Just the act alone makes them a criminal. I could be wrong, but I believe that is what the last poster means. I am starting to think you would have called me a racist if I hadn't mentioned I am from El Salvador. Don't assume someone is a racist just because he wants a tighter border. We want a tight border so these CRIMINALS don't enter ILLEGALLY.

My parents loved me. Want to know how I have proof? They didn't enter America illegally and put me into the situation that thousands of thoughtless immigrants put their families through. It's like this. If I care about my family, I am not going to involve them in my criminal acts. I'm not going to invade another country and make them illegal people in another country. My parents love me, want to know how I can prove this? [holding up my social security card, selective service card, college diploma, medical insurance card, drivers license] That's how. They didn't make me have to do things illegally. THAT is proof, not to mention the fact that they tell me they love me every day in ENGLISH despite the fact that they are native spanish speakers.They chose to learn the local language and speak it.

Editor: They don't have the same opportunities that you did, and I'm sure you know but are ignoring the fact that most people cross into the US for a better life, for their families. Let me list a couple of things, a local car dealership told us that if we did any news related to the Hispanic community, that they were interested. Why? Because if one person buys a car and likes it, every member of that family will buy their cars there. Elements still exist in their culture like customer loyalty, that no longer exist in the land of the lowest bidder' the USA. You don't know what it is like for them Terry, and no offense, but people like yourself don't try. You take the only approach your eyes can see, but that is not the only approach. I harbor no resentment toward these people, I love all human beings the way I am supposed to. Again, reading your words, makes me think you are a racist and there may be little hope, at least at this point.

I entirely ignored the age of the child, because I believe criminal can be any age. He was a 15 year old criminal, and he was shot for committing a crime involving violence against border patrol agent[s]. And who knows how big the rock is. I've seen some small rocks that would fit in your hand, and be easily thrown that could EASILY kill a person, specially the flat shale-type rocks that are razor sharp. Who knows, the rock might have been deadlier than the bullet that was shot, but the guy with the gun had better aim?

Editor: Oh please! Do you know what a helmet is? Do you know what in IBA is? Our soldiers wear these in 130 degree weather in Iraq, there is no reason the BP's can't do it. And this is sad, I'd bet money that BP agents left and right are totally pissed and embarrassed about this. You may have what it takes to condone the murder of this kid, but most LE officers wouldn't, because as critical as I am of them, there are many great people in that system.

I am sorry I am so black and white about this. I don't believe a grown adult should ever involve their children in illegal activities. I'll add one more thing. My wife just told me "Your just lucky you were born here or you might think differently." As much as I hate to say it, she's right and I am totally wrong, because if I was born there I might try to get out of that hellhole and try my way into America. But as I was born here, I am just deadpanned that we have borders and we should protect them.

Editor: Terry, bingo. It isn't that you don't have many good points. You are a real human being for writing this; a good person trying to figure it out. I have people in my life who have very strong feelings about all of this, and in the end it is you who hit the nail on the head. It really does have a lot to do with where you start. Thanks.

In conclusion, this is the kind of thing I live for. I can't count the victories we have seen over the last six years, there are many. In the extreme cases we have been told that our stories about individual struggles were life changing, even life saving. That is the ultimate reward for what we do. This is not quite as significant, but I believe the comment exchange clearly illustrates that people have the ability to approach a situation one way, and leave a different way. Change is good, supporting humanity at large without national or religions or racial discrimination is the only way to go. Oh and Terry, you have a good wife, there is a reason you have important gifts like that, which I also have. Your ability to express yourself the way you did is impressive, and leaves me once again, quite sure that there is hope in this world.

Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist, reporter and assignment editor. In addition to his role as a war correspondent, this Los Angeles native serves as Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor. Tim spent the winter of 2006/07 covering the war in Afghanistan, and he was in Iraq over the summer of 2008, reporting from the war while embedded with both the U.S. Army and the Marines.

Tim holds numerous awards for reporting, photography, writing and editing, including the Oregon AP Award for Spot News Photographer of the Year (2004), first place Electronic Media Award in Spot News, Las Vegas, (1998), Oregon AP Cooperation Award (1991); and several others including the 2005 Red Cross Good Neighborhood Award for reporting. Serving the community in very real terms, Salem-News.com is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website. You can send Tim an email at this address: newsroom@salem-news.com

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"EL TEJANO" November 12, 2010 11:53 am (Pacific time)

I do understand on having a tighter border..I'm Mexican-American...or Chicano..but the fact is...this is for the Salvador person...If you want tighter borders...then your family should of never been here.."Correct" right....Every person in The United States...came from somewhere else....for the same reason...."Hope"...we have more crime here from American people..then those coming from somewhere else....for the very reason people want to make a life..One must remember the journey people take for a better life...so "Salvador" instead of try'in to make things worst...finish school and become someone to help the Hispanics...In the United States...better school programs...better protection against abuse..ect..ect..before you common on me...I'm almost done with my schooling on become "Correction/Juvenile Probation Officer...to better serve my community and help Hispanic kids...

Tom June 15, 2010 8:26 am (Pacific time)

Vic the history of my homeland was part of my educational upbringing. I heard the "living history" from many many people who were involved, not from some hearsay and subjective writers who were most likely not there. All of the people who died in the Philippines and elsewhere in the Pacific Theatre of Operation as the result of WWII were killed because of the warmongering Japanese Imperialistic forces, who by the way were brown people who literally killed millions of other brown people and countless thousands of white people in some of the most barbaric ways imanginable. Far more civilians would have died throughout my home country had Japan been allowed to continue their horrific occupation. Maybe when you read your history books Vic, you should make an attempt to understand the "flow" of events, the cause and effect variables. I have to assume you have no military experience, nor any formal training in WWII history, so that explains your histrionics and lack of appreciation of viewing this history from it's time period, rather than applying contemporary interpretations most likely tainted by inexperience and misinformation.

Vic June 14, 2010 6:42 pm (Pacific time)

Tom, do you realize how many Philippinos were killed when the US "liberated" Manila..?(not the Philippines,,,JUST Manila ??) I'll make it easy on you! 100,000....ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND Philippinos were killed by the American bombing campaign that "liberated" Manila. Some friends, eh? I would hope to God that the town we live in is never "liberated" by the US. Read some F***ing history books ..history is history, period...Facts are facts. Basically, the Philippinos were just as brown as the Japanese, so who cares how many are killed right? In fact, the Philippinos looked like Japanese ..so WTF.... who cares if 100,000 are killed /liberated. right? Good God....

Tom June 14, 2010 8:56 am (Pacific time)

Editor: "The war you reference in the Philllipines was an absolutely American slaughter, sort of like we did in Iraq, only didn't the Americans kill every male 10 and above?" What are you talking about? What American slaughter outside of killing our enemies? Anyway I briefly touched upon the major impact U.S. Paratroopers and the U.S. Rangers had in the entire Pacific Theatre of Operations that spearheaded our victory over the brutal Japanese regime, and the close cultural connections between the Philippines and the United States, and how anglo names are pretty common from where I was born. Regarding America exploiting the middle east, are you familiar at all with the history of that part of the world? The overall flow going back to 700 AD and before? I see by your bio you were in the Marines, does the "...shores of Tripoli..." mean anything to you. Shortly after we became a country, muslim pirates began attacking our ships and killing our men, and we responded in self-defense. Does that sound like we started to exploit their kindness to us? Are you familiar with the violent spread of Islam throughout the world? Happening this very day, all over the world, even here in America. Racism and WWII France, what are you talking about? Also I was not demeaning your brief visits to Afghanistan and Iraq, but that hardly provides one any in-depth insight into the middle east. I spent a total of approximately 15 years over there, and I would never claim the experience level some people seem to claim. I am also a combat veteran (Paratooper), as our several of my children (Paratroopers). As far as racist behavior, I was certainly a recipient of that as I referened in my previous post while living in this area (middle east) of the world. Sure there are great people everywhere, but some cultures reinforce treating outsiders with contempt. If you do not fully accept some religious dogma, you will be punished, even killed in some cases. Is that happening in today's western societies? No! The spread of Islam has been and is still a very violent interaction. The history of that reality is well documented. America has done more to improve the lives of people around the world than anybody else, but still we have a small minority who want to point out all our negatives. One can only wonder why people like that continue to reside in a country they dislike so much, but most likely do not understand their reality because they do not know our history, much less world history even on a cursory level. Reference update/synopsis for you that you mentioned: Flyboys: A True Story of Courage, a factual account of the lives of a group of young World War II fighter pilots, including George H. W. Bush. The book tells the story of United States Navy pilots who bombed the island's two radio stations, and details the stories of the US pilots who were :captured, tortured, executed, and in some cases, partially eaten in February 1945." Yes the Japanese were real humanitarians.

TOM June 13, 2010 6:53 pm (Pacific time)

Tom, or any anglo name is not unique to the Philippines or those of us living in the states. Maybe a course in history on this area of the world going back to the Spanish/American War would be of benefit. I have found those that are familiar with World War II history also have some valuable insight on just how culturally close the Philippines are to America. Had it not been for U.S. Paratroopers and Rangers with Philippino military personnel who went into Japanese held area's to destroy much of their war infrastructure throughout the PTO, the Marines would have been wiped out by early 1943. These are the people who actually brought the Japanese to their knees before the atom bombs were rightfully dropped. There are millions of people from this part of the world living all over the states, mainly in California and the northwest. My grandparents in the early 1900's were taught by American school teachers who had been setting up educational systems all over the Philippines. They in turn gave their children anglo names, and this was an ongoing tradition for many. My father fought in WWII, going to the states for military training, including jump school before returning to the Pacific Theatre to serve in a specialized Airborne outfit that also jumped into many combat areas, mostly in small specialized units. He also jumped into Corregidor. The Airborne had units all over the pacific, and also fought and jumped in small groups in New Guinea, China, India and southeast Asia. My father's name was Robert. He got his citizenship shortly before going to Korea in 1951 . I came to the states in 1963. All of my uncles, brothers have served in the U.S. Airborne. Our children are serving now, and all have what would be considered anglo names. Afterall we are Americans. See the first link and find out just how the Airborne were the first in to take the fight to the enemy: http://www.ww2-airborne.us/18corps/503_overview.htmlhttp://www.ww2-airborne.us/division/ww2web.html (scroll down to PTO)/// http://thedropzone.org/pacific/default.html It's unfortunate any time someone is killed, but when one is in the process of having others attempt to do violence to you, you stop them. As far as my time in six different arab countries that added up collectively to 15 years over a 22 year period, all of my associates also had pretty disturbing experiences. Since it sounds like you went briefly to countries occupied by US Forces, no doubt you were not exposed to the realities of how westerners are treated in some muslim countries. It ain't a bed of roses. Oh, and many hire Asians from around the world as domestics, so I was also stereotyped in that regard, even though they were paying me six figures.

Tim King: Western nations pillaged the Middle East, exploited and lied to people and the reason was greed. I hardly blame anyone in the Middle East for disliking westerners, especially those who exist to force their religion on others. I have seen very few good results from this, though I have to give the LDS folks credit for at least doing it in real terms part of the time. People in France have a tendency to treat Americans with indifference, but that is because of the racism we forced down their throats as a condition of joining WWII. The war you reference in the Philllipines was an absolutely American slaughter, sort of like we did in Iraq, only didn't the Americans kill every male 10 and above? I could look that up, the figure comes from the book FLYBOYS about the Chichi Jima campaign. Just don't make people sound bad in a region, there are good and bad people everywhere. There are terrible western people, but you can't say 'everyone in the west is bad'. I like your assessment of my travels, your attempt to be demeaning is comical, as most reporters have not spent time in a war, let alone two. But you would minimize it, that is your gig. Try to not be racist, good luck.

Patriot June 13, 2010 11:04 am (Pacific time)

Editor: Bye bye scumbag!

Vic June 12, 2010 4:48 pm (Pacific time)

If I were a Mexican with a high-powered rifle/ scope, Id be tempted to shoot a couple Border Patrol SS just to prove a point...bullets can go from South to North just as fast as North to South. The US (5% of the world's population) has declared war on the rest of the world (the other 95%)...wonder how that is going to work out?

Tom Getsi June 12, 2010 10:23 am (Pacific time)

TIM KING: I'm from the Philippines, and have been raised in America (school:grades K-12 in LA, college in Oregon and Massachusettes)) since I was three. I've encountered all kinds of bigotry, but very little from white people. I'm now 49 now and feel quite blessed that my family immigrated here, legally. In terms of having to use deadly force, the "kill or be killed" scenario goes back to the begiining of life. I served in combat, so I know the split second decision one has to make, I would never second guess the border patrol officer shooting, nor should anyone else until the evidence has a full airing. I've lived in many parts of the world because of my employment, and never have I been treated so badly as in the middle east. Not just one country, but all the ones I went to. I was warned if I wore a "cross" in any fashion I would be possibly arrested or deported. This of course is different in all muslim-controlled countries, but their intolerance is pretty much like the liberals in America.
Q: What does Islam and perceived "racism" do to the liberal psyche? A: Confuses it. The liberal psyche wants to protect minorities, to apologize for imperialism, colonialism, slavery, and the appalling treatment of black people during the civil rights movement. The very concept of individual, rather than collective, rights is anathema to leftists. Liberals are never happy if there is a single individual on earth who is freely choosing to do anything, or believing in anything, that does not comport with liberalism's cultic theology. They’ve convinced themselves that the best way to do that in general is to defend the cultures that are non-white. But what they forget, and what they’re being confronted with, is that non-white cultures contain misogynistic, collectivist, tribal, gay-unfriendly and female-hostile traditions. And so they’re confused: on the one hand, they’re looking at minorities as groups they need to save and speak up for, and on the other hand, they’re confronted with the ideas and practices of individuals within those minorities that are very undemocratic and appalling, really. Liberals live via "groupthink"...there's not a free-thinking individual in the lot, but ironically, they all feel they are independent thinkers.

Editor: Man, why does it always have to be about labels Tom? Also, that ia a unique name for a Philippino isn't it? And what is your point? I think I recognize your writing and I think it is a litttle too unique of a story to really sound believable. Basically you're another fake Republican shill trolling around, probably paid, to drop this nonsensical silly confused and backward point that what? Justifies shooting a kid in Mexico? The Middle East is not as you describe, so that tells me you haven't been there. And don't come back and act shocked and suprised, you know who you are....

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