Oregon Man Battles to Remove Historic Mojave Desert Cross Honoring War Dead

It began when an Oregon who said he was "offended" by this historic cross honoring WWI war dead.

(SALEM, Ore.) - Religious groups and veteran's organizations are applauding arguments from the federal government in favor of a historic cross in the California Desert, built by war veterans to honor their fallen.

The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty explains that in a brief filed in the Supreme Court in Salazar v. Buono, the United States government defended the constitutionality of the 75-year old Mojave Desert Cross, which memorializes World War I veterans.

The symbol which clearly represents the Christian faith, was constructed in 1934 by veterans of the First World War. In 1994, Congress created the national preserve, which placed the land under the National Park Service.

It was argued by the government that the case should be dismissed because the plaintiff, Frank Buono of Oregon, has not been personally injured or denied any rights by the presence of the cross, but merely claims to be offended by it.

"Stripping this country of every symbol-even the religious ones-that might offend somebody somewhere will impoverish American culture," said Eric Rassbach, National Litigation Director of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty.

"The First Amendment guarantees the right to speak and believe freely; it does not guarantee the right to silence those who disagree with you."

Salazar v. Buono came to be commonly known as the Mojave Desert Cross case. At hand, was whether the 75-year old cross memorializing World War I veterans could exist within what is now a federal preserve. The initial decision of the district court was that the cross had to be removed.

The Department of Interior was then directed by Congressional legislation, to transfer an acre of land, including the cross, to the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) in exchange for a parcel of equal value elsewhere in the preserve.

"The United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit then permanently enjoined the government from implementing the Act," a release from the Becket Fund explained.

The first attempt to remove the cross from site came in the form of a burlap sack that was used to cover it. But the success of that approach was short-lived and when the sack blew away, the court decided that the cross should be covered by a plywood box.

For a period of time, people working closely to the issue like Rassbach, worried that they stood to lose far more than just the Mojave Desert Cross.

He said, "If the Supreme Court strikes down this memorial, tens of thousands of memorials around the country stand at risk."

According to On the Docket: Supreme Court News, the case began in 2001 when the American Civil Liberties Union filed suit in 2001 on behalf of a former park service employee, Frank Buono, who is a Roman Catholic.

Buono's allegation was that the cross violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The suit also noted that the park service had denied a request to have a Buddhist shrine erected near the cross.

The first cross at this location was constructed in 1934. This cross was the focus
of a lawsuit between the NPS and the ACLU. Photo by Eric Nystrom, 2001/nps.gov

U.S District Court Judge Robert J. Timlin of the Central District of California agreed with Buono. His 2002 ruling stated that the “primary effect of the presence of the cross” was to “advance religion.”

Peter Eliasberg, staff attorney with the ACLU/SC said, "This is a huge victory not only for the ACLU but also for the First Amendment."

Eliasberg continued by saying government shouln't be in the business of advancing one particular religion over another, or denigrating one religion or another.

"Time and time again the courts have held that erecting a permanent religious fixture on federal land violates the United States Constitution. The violation is even plainer here, where the government refused a citizen's request to erect a symbol of another religion in the same area where the Mojave Cross stands."

The response from Congress in 2004 was the passage of legislation that directed the Department of the Interior to transfer approximately an acre of land to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in exchange for a privately owned plot nearby.

A three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld the lower court ruling and invalidated the land transfer on September 6th 2007.

They noted that “carving out a tiny parcel of property in the midst of this vast preserve — like a donut hole with the cross atop it — will do nothing to minimize the impermissible governmental endorsement” of the religious symbol.

It was argued that the “seriously misguided decision” requires the government “to tear down a cross that has stood without incident for 70 years as a memorial to fallen service members.”

The U.S. government also questioned whether Buono even had standing to challenge the cross as a resident of Oregon, and how he would suffer specific harm because of the cross.

The VFW set off panic alarms by suggesting that the ruling could eventually lead to problems displaying crosses in places like Arlington National Cemetery. That move certainly has brought more pressure forward.

"It is disheartening and distressing to think that Arlington Cemetery must be gutted because there are those who are offended by the religious imagery," the organizations wrote.

"And under the Ninth Circuit’s approach, no memorial may be preserved by conveying it to a veterans organization, probably the very organization that paid for the memorial in the first place."

In late February 2009, Kelly Shackelford, chief counsel of Liberty Legal Institute and attorney for the veterans groups, said, "It is bad enough to say that the veterans' memorial is unconstitutional, but it is outrageous to say that the government cannot give the monument back to the people who spilled their blood and put it there in the first place."

For now the cross remains covered. It seems that the shadow cast by this eight-foot tall simple monument will probably never go away completely.

It seems that we have progressed beyond the need to tie death and war and a particular religion together. The Vietnam Wall is certainly non denominational. Here in Salem, Oregon we have an extremely impressive tribute to casualties of the current wars overseas that memorialized the people rather a symbol of religion.

One memory that stands out in all of this was something I saw near the village of Romagne-sous-Montfaucon, France some years ago. I had been in the American war cemetery there, which is at the same time, breathtaking and appalling; a sight of magnificent white crosses that unfortunately stretch as far as the eye can see.

I left there with a friend and went to the German WWI cemetery which is closer to the village. Among the smaller, darker crosses with sort of a Gothic appearance, were Star of David graves. I couldn't believe my eyes, they looked so out of place. I knew the Germans had been mostly OK toward its Jewish population during the "Great War" of 1914-1918, but I didn't know that they were that progressive about it.

Well, as it turns out they weren't exactly. The Star of David graves were actually installed in the 1970's as it was explained to me, by Israeli citizens. Jean Paul said the people who did the work, wanted all Germans who come to visit this place to know that Christian and Jewish soldiers were fighting and dying side by side.

Today that debate is over. We know that people from all cultures and religions fight and die together on the same side and we take the time to recognize their individual beliefs if and when that time comes. But moreover, we memorialize the people rather than religious symbols in public displays, and that is something we have had to learn to do. In 1934 they saw things differently.

I have included some videos about the Mojave Desert Cross that explain more of the history:

Tim King is a former U.S. Marine with twenty years of experience on the west coast as a television news producer, photojournalist, reporter and assignment editor. In addition to his role as a war correspondent, this Los Angeles native serves as Salem-News.com's Executive News Editor.
Tim spent the winter of 2006/07 covering the war in Afghanistan, and he was in Iraq over the summer of 2008, reporting from the war while embedded with both the U.S. Army and the Marines. Tim holds numerous awards for reporting, photography, writing and editing, including the Oregon AP Award for Spot News Photographer of the Year (2004), the first place Electronic Media Award in Spot News, Las Vegas, (1998), Oregon AP Cooperation Award (1991); and several other awards including the 2005 Red Cross Good Neighborhood Award for reporting. Serving the community in very real terms, Salem-News.com is the nation's only truly independent high traffic news Website, affiliated with Google News and several other major search engines and news aggregators.
You can send Tim an email at this address: newsroom@salem-news.com

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desert racer November 11, 2011 5:42 pm (Pacific time)

What I find confusing is that if these poeple do not believe in God or any symbols relating to God then a cross would mean absolutley nothing to them!

Nick James May 12, 2010 4:36 pm (Pacific time)

you Know, Who are these People? Where Do You Think You came From? Not just From Your mom, But From God...! You people Need To Grow Some Balls and man Up! The Supreme Court is The Court, Not God! as far as I'm concerned, with alot of Other American Citizens and any one who has ever served In the Military Their Is No court... some of You need to Go to Church and Read the Bible..!

Natalie May 1, 2010 1:03 am (Pacific time)

How come ACLU didn't think of filing a suit against the Red Cross yet? Ooooops, what if they read S-N... And covering any memorial with a sack or a plywood box is highly disrespectful. We don't bury our loved ones in rags. And it doesn't matter if we pro or against the war.

anakr1nen April 30, 2010 9:35 pm (Pacific time)

I have decided to become a liberal. The Constitution gives me the right whine and blame society for my problems. I have the right to be offended by anything and everything I chose. (btw, I am deeply offended by the color white. White is associated with angels, and angels are Christian symbols. Therefore, I demand there be no white buildings on public land. Let's repaint the White House -- How's navy blue sound? Anyway, this is MY right as a liberal. And anyone who disagrees with ME is ONLY doing so because they have an unexplainable animosity against ME.

(So how many times a day do you think a liberal uses the word ME?)

Off your meds, today? DJ

anakr1nen April 30, 2010 9:09 pm (Pacific time)

The cross was erected in 1934. The area became public land in 1994 (60 years later!) It's not like someone erected a cross in Central Park, NY for crying out loud! I was in Columbia last year. One thing that really impressed me was the open acceptance of religious symbols. Now, I don't think we should be allowed to put crosses and other symbols where ever we want to, but reason should be adhered to. And no, there is NOTHING in the Constitution which requires the removal of all acknowledgment of religion from the public arena. Christianity, like it or not, is a very significant part of America. Frankly, I think if our ancestors could speak to us from the grave, they'd tell us to stop the whining!

Anonymous February 9, 2010 10:40 am (Pacific time)

dude the bouno is awesome so how about you get a life!

roon3325@yahoo.com November 23, 2009 4:33 pm (Pacific time)

If the cross comes down get your cameras ready. There will be another Iwo Jima photo-op. Not a flag but a cross. One man can not dictate to millions of vets.

Casey in Casper WY October 26, 2009 5:35 pm (Pacific time)

Shame on Frank Buono and any and all that would give this the time of day. Mr. Buono forgets that one fundamental fact...if it weren't for all those brave men fighting to preserve out freedoms, he wouldn't be able to complain on such an issue. Shame on him! He is NOT Catholic or God fearing in any manner. Any Man or Woman that is would NEVER do such a shameful thing to all the soldiers and their families....heck, to the country. How can you b e offended by a symbol that represents love, faith and all things good. We rest knowing that our faith and our country are strong. Taking the cross down won't change that. When judgement day comes for Mr. Buono and the ACLU......that will be a good day.

Davester October 21, 2009 6:04 am (Pacific time)

This has got to be one of the dumbest articles I have ever read. 'We know that people from all cultures and religions fight and die together on the same side ' HUH?? Do the Israelis and Palestinians fight on the same side? I don't think so. For anyone who has a clue - anyone whose worldview is still informed by a belief in God and an understanding of who God is, the truth will be grasped that good and evil are still relevant concepts. And that the good is still worth fighting for.

Tim King: That has to be the most hypocritical thing I have ever read Davester. First, Christians aren't supposed to judge (i.e. "This has got to be one of the dumbest...) and you suggest that all people who fight one another are from opposing cultures? Ever heard of the American Civil War. Dude, go back to school, apologize for the things you say to people, and know that you truly look like an idiot when you write things like this.

Gary Cherms October 19, 2009 8:16 pm (Pacific time)

I have spent the past three years going from city council to council forcing them to remember out loss by flying the POW/MIA flag. There are now 21 cities doing so. If we as a nation forget our fallen for just an instant how is the youth of today going to remember the past.

I have an idea to keep the cross standing. Looking for true Americans to stand up for what is right. Go to http://www.myspace.com/garycherms this weekend for information. If your can't stand the heat...get out of the kitchen,

Editor: Gary, we commend your efforts and would be glad to tell people more about what you are doing. I sent you a myspace invite and I hope other people do the same. Forgetting our POW/MIA's is an unforgivable thing and we have written about it many times.

dave October 10, 2009 9:18 pm (Pacific time)

you know all you people offended by this cross you need to sit back and think of all the AMERICAN soldiers over the years that gave their live to keep this country free and to give you all your freedom taking this cross down or covering it up is a slap to every veteran that has served , is serving, or will serve our country. so if the cross offends you get your UNAMERICAN butt out of my country you are a discrace to america....

Robert Hammond October 8, 2009 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Mr. Tim King, Semper Fi! I'm a former Marine (1980-1984) and was based at Camp LeJeune and MCAS El Toro. Perhaps you and I can cut to the chase - are you in agreement with the covering of this cross? I'm not! There is NO such thing as "separation of church and state". This is made up by non-Christian judges. Tim, I will give you $1000.00 in cash if *you* can show me any document from our Founding Fathers talking about Separation of Church and State! Tim, did you know that 29 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were _pastors_? The cross needs to be uncovered. I hope to here back from you. I'm running for state office. My e-mail address is included. Take care, Robert Hammond RobertThePastor@juno.com

Rev. Lino Sanchez October 8, 2009 10:31 am (Pacific time)

A pungent odor form my left foot produced a vision; my left foot spoke to it stated that it was one of several Gods and as such should be prayed too. Later Satan spoke to my from a rotting piece of broccoli in the back of my refrigerator. He order that a bronze figure of my left foot crowned with Satan's horn shall be placed next to Mojave cross. This juxtaposition will show the duality of life; the cross representing evil. The cross has been used over the last 2000 years as pretext for murder, rape and pillage. This blood drenched symbol of evil is of several magnitudes greater then the Nazi swastika. As such I expect the federal government to pay tax payer's monies for the maintenance of the bronze. May Satan bless all the rednecks in this great Nation.

Curt Moore October 7, 2009 8:38 pm (Pacific time)

P.S. Private to Tim.. Your still ugly.. And 3rd MAW Rocks!

Curt Moore October 7, 2009 8:19 pm (Pacific time)

As a Marine Bugler in the 1980's at 29 Palms, I played a sunrise service memorial at this site. It was Easter weekend and it was COLD! My family, Aunts Uncles Mother Father and Sister came out bundled up to pay tribute to the memory of the fallen veterans. I would like to thank the WWI Veterans and their families for their supreme sacrifices. This Monument on Federal reserve, accepted into Federal lands as it was at the time of Federalization, a War Monument. This is what it is, a war monument to remember. Let us never forget that freedom is not free. I would like to invite the ACLU to fight with their blood, sweat, and tears for our Countries right to exist. It takes sacrifice, duty, honor, and courage to maintain our borders and freedoms. This site is a WWI monument. It is not a call to Calvary. If the site of the cross does excite you to a call to Calvary, then maybe there is something much deeper going on inside you. I am a Catholic, and this cross excited me to be a better Marine and Citizen. This site made me and my family remember the sacrifices of men and women in far off places. their sacrifices for me to grow up in a tyrant free America. Thank you WWI Veterans. Curt Moore USMC 1984-1990

Rhys October 5, 2009 1:27 pm (Pacific time)

We don't know EXACTLY why the plaintiff brought this case. It may be that he's got a stick up his butt and is genuinely offended by seeing religious imagery. Or it may be something else; ask him. Either way, it is his privilege to bring the matter to the attention of the courts. You're free to jump to any conclusion about his motives and react with anger or self-righteousness. You're free to talk about how "real Americans" are all Christians or how you can't understand how any person could be offended by a cross knowing that Christ carried a cross for all of us. You can run off at the mouth about the ACLU. But that's not what *I* take away from this case. First of all, we have a separation of church and state. This country was mostly settled by Christians from various denominations. MANY of those Christians had experienced persecution in the countries from which they emigrated. The importance of religious freedom in America was easy to acknowledge because people at that time had firsthand knowledge of how bad things are without it. People today have it so good that they label cases like this as religious persecution! The MOST IMPORTANT point I take away from this case is that FAVORITISM is being shown to a CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS SYMBOL. - We all know that the cross was NOT put there by the federal government and was already there when the land became federal. - We know that it's a memorial to war dead. - We know that the federal government, in the form of the park authorities, declined a request to have a Buddhist shrine placed there. THAT is the saving grace of this case for me. Neither the cross, the star of david, nor the pentacle are atheist symbols. They are religious, whether they are memorials or not. No *reasonable* person wants to tell you that you can't be Christian or that you can't put a cross on YOUR OWN grave. The presence of the cross there became a problem when the Buddhists expressed a wish to place another symbol there as a memorial and had that request denied. BECAUSE IT IS NOW FEDERAL LAND, that is a problem, because it means the government is sanctioning one religious group (Christians) over another (Buddhists). I doubt this Roman Catholic guy is making this point in order to persecute Christians. (I know some Protestants forget that Catholics are Christians, so let me remind you that they are.) Rather, because the Buddhist shrine is repeatedly mentioned, I see this case as being ENTIRELY supportive of preserving American values and freedoms. At least a few Buddhists are Americans too. I know this may be difficult for some over-reactive people to understand. But do you get it? MOSTLY no one cares whether the 10 commandments are in front of city hall. That's all well and good. But it would be a PROBLEM if a beautiful statue sporting the Wiccan Rede were donated to the same city hall and the same city hall refused to display it with equal respect. You personally as a Christian aren't required to have respect for other religions. But the government absolutely CANNOT show favoritism to Christianity above other religions.

Daryl October 4, 2009 7:08 pm (Pacific time)

I think we should sue the ACLU to have the word American and Liberty taken out of ACLU. They are not American nor do they fight for Liberty.

Hal R. Simons September 29, 2009 9:44 am (Pacific time)

I just read about this today and read all the comments along with it. Memorials are important to all of us. I am a retired SFC and know the importance of rembering our fallen. Iraq took a soldier who knew the man left a family a wife and two daughters. I would like to know If Bruno has the courage to find each of the family members who lost someone in WWI who the cross was meant for and look into their eyes and tell their sacrifice meant nothing. The cross was thier prior to ever becoming federal land, but at the time our government saw no reason for it to come down. They saw it for what it was a memorial. to our fallen. Which brings to a question I would like the ACLU to answer, If I feel a threat to a memorial with a religious symbol that had its sole purpose in honoring the fallen or even the living would you take my case? I lost my daughter when she was 18 yrs old. If someone wanted to memoralize her and them to have someone object. I would fight them over whatever was placed for her. It is time that we all gather together to insure memorials to our fallen are maintained kept in place.

leroy September 23, 2009 9:33 pm (Pacific time)

Id like to see every real american put a cross on their roof tops. maybe the aclu will go broke trying to sue us all. Im 75 years old and know how it used to be which was a good life with a smaller goverment. Its hard to understand how these other people think. (aclu ect.) Go back from where you came from, your not a true american as I have known over the years. got to go now as Im building a cross to put on my roof.

Greg September 17, 2009 3:12 pm (Pacific time)

Let's be realistic here. I say we all "wink wink" and call it a lower case 't' and not a cross and then the argument is over. What's next, remove the crosses (lower case 't') from the name of our country: UNI_ED S_A_ES of AMERICA. (Or did I just unkowingly give the ACLU ammunition to go after that too?)

David Casler August 9, 2009 1:32 am (Pacific time)

Tim, I am aslo a Marine having served in Iraq. Having a father who is Marine. Having two Grandfathers who were in WWII. Family that goes back to Civil War. Your end statement was interresting. Were you there covering the cross in 1934? Have you talked to anyone of the original group of individuals that were there? In your investigation into reporting on this subject did you find and relevent or statements as to the fact of religion and the cross being the sole intent? If not, I don't think you stand as a qualified person to GUESS what they thought or their motives were. Semper Fi

David August 9, 2009 1:15 am (Pacific time)

I would like to say that those who say it's a Christian symbol without taking anything into context are IGNORANT!! While it IS a Christian symbol it HAS historically been used to IDENTIFY with the LOSS OF LIFE. MANY times in history a person HAS been burried and the "CROSS" has been used to IDENTIFY a grave, as IN it has been used as a MARKER. IGNORANT people forget that in history people have been crucified and were NOT Christians and the people crucifying them were NOT Christians. Its more a symbol of the DEAD, those who DIED that ANY Christian notion (IN THIS CONTEXT). If you feel that it may be missunderstood or the preception is NOT of that which is was intended, well, then you may GROW THE HELL UP nd stop waisting peoples time and tax' payers money. Frank, as a Catholic, you disgust me in your ignorance and lack of humility. For the ACLU, well, you're doing a great job at chasing your tails and becoming opsolete.

sandy sullivan August 6, 2009 2:44 pm (Pacific time)

I need to change a word in my commentary... I feel my feelings for Mr. Buono came out in the word gesture ( jester) as my husband pointed out... oh my sometimes I get so frustrated with the lack of conscience of some people. But again I say leave the memorial it's a piece of history....

Hugh Galbraith August 5, 2009 5:24 pm (Pacific time)

Mr. Buono and those that share his hurt feels are free to avert their eyes or simple walk west until their hats float and they're out of MY country.

Richard August 4, 2009 2:33 pm (Pacific time)

With 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and the Mojave Desert Cross I just about went ballistic over that one. In my heart I am willing to place my life once again for what I believe is just and right for our beloved America. The only thing I think that is holding men like myself back is because of our first hand knowledge of just what human carnage and destruction means. What I am not sure of if it will not come to it once again. What the news and the government are not telling you is that the unemployment is more than what you may think. San Bernardino County for example where the Cross is located many of the people that could not find a job that where retirement age just took there Social Security and quit, other had drawn out all they could and are not on the roles anymore, taking into consideration all of this and more the true unemployment is about 35% to 45% in San Bernardino County. With our court system desecrating our most scared values, and the congress and the executive branches putting big business and special interest above home owners and spending money they don’t have or can’t borrow it is hard to say what will happen next. When God gave manna in the morning and doves in the evening to the Israelites, I say you know, “I can’t even kill doves anymore” because of my soften heart knowing that they mate for life, yet if someone came to me said, “We are going to take Sunrise Rock in the Mojave Desert to sustain the Cross” I do not think that I would say no. I say, that I did not place my life on the line for anyone to tear down or desecrate any religious monument, building, structure, head stone, or article. This Cross is now a symbol of what is right and true. Even though it’s made of iron and not wood it is now the consecrated into the True Cross that was lost in crusades so many long years ago. If you want to take In God We Trust out of the United States you would have to destroy it first and that is exactly what is going down. They, meaning those who are against God and the United States of America need to be taken down. I say to arms to arms these who are attempting to take our most sacred value apart need to be wiped from the face of the earth and it this means blood and the flow of human essences let it be so for I have but one life and that life is for the preservation of this country at all cost to include my life. As humble servant of the Lord God I say that there is going to be Civil War in this country once again and this time it not going to be for Human Rights this times its going to be for God Rights it is time to chose your side our brother will fight brother, sisters will kill the unborn, sisters will bring to life the New Age. I promise you in the coming battle that the Angels of the Lord God will be with those that chose him. The Angels of Hell will be on the side of those the chose hell. As with John Brown Harpers Ferry was the start of the last civil war I would not be surprised if the Sunrise Rock is the start of the second civil war. I realize that our courts, congress, and executive branches have chosen hell and are being now sustained by the legion of Angels of hell. Our numbers are few, our numbers are aged like myself, our number are the unborn dead, our numbers are the weak, our number are the lame, or numbers are not our strength because the Angels of the Lord God will fill our ranks with his might and his strength. My call is to all knights of the temple that died in that battle so long ago and to fill our ranks and let the battle begin anew. I have gotten down on my hands knees in a most humble way asking for everyone in this nation to be sustained during this time. Pray for the resurrection and deliverance of my enemy, my love ones, my fellow countrymen, and for all. May God Bless you and keep you. Thanks Rich

Bill August 2, 2009 9:20 pm (Pacific time)

Its a cristian symbol on federal property. Just because somebody calls it a memorial to something, does not change that fact. There is not even an interpretive sign at the site. Sorry all of you "patriots" do not like our constitution and form of government that does not permit the endorcement of religion by the state, but it has its purpose. How about the park service take the pipes down and put up a symbol of some other religion? Bet you would object. Not every outcome that grows out of our constitution will accomodate the fealings of some group or another. We protect our minorities by keeping government out of the religion business. And for all of you who seem to want to beat up the plaintiff, a federal case needs to have a plaintiff in order to challenge a violation of the first amendment. He represents all who value that document as something worth fighting for. That is what the veterans fought for. Don't denegrate them by turning this issue into a crusade for christen symbolism by the current majority who controls the government.

Dale July 29, 2009 6:46 pm (Pacific time)

I think the headline of this article is in error. Although the Supreme Court agreed in February to hear the case, oral arguments will not be presented until October. http://otd.oyez.org/cases/2008/salazar-v-buono

Uell B. July 26, 2009 9:37 am (Pacific time)

Buono, go put your head in the sand. You can also consider taking the ACLU with you. This is a MAJORITY RULES country. Let's keep it that way. If someone does not like the MAJORITY RULES as we have it here, let him/her go to another country and be banded forever to come back to the USA. We love our country and like it based on faith!! I would like to see us remove the ACLU from our country because they do not stand for the MAJORITY RULE USA!!!

Sandy Sullivan July 25, 2009 11:26 am (Pacific time)

I have been saddened by the amount of tax money wasted by Frank Buono thru the ACLU to petition the removal of this memorial in the Mojave desert. If you research and read all the material it starts to read like the rantings of a spoiled little boy who didn't get his way, so now he's gone to get his Daddy to "fix it." Well I for one don't want my taxes to pay for these judges to rule on a case that clearly has no merit beyond the fact that Franks request for a Buhdist shrine be erected nearby was turned down. So he gets mad and the rest of this ensues. The memorial was there before it was a national park, if my timelines are correct, and a plaque was there and recognized as such by the US government when it was turned into a nation park , so don't tell me that they didn't know it was there. The unfortunate problem is that Frank's request was after the transformation of the land to a park, so naturally it would be turned down, tough break Frank, but you could have chosen another place..timing is everything sometimes. The real problem here is the bantering of a few people who want to rewrite the constitution and twist it's conveyance of meaning to fit any one person's wants. Just stop it. Frank go find another place to build your shrine but do your homework first, check to make sure that no one will be offended and that in some future space in time that the government won't come along and aquire that land and then someone will cry about the shrine already there that you built to memorialize whatever it was that you wanted to memorialize.I'm still puzzled by that....? you are Roman Catholic but you wanted a Buhdist shrine? ok far be it for me to question you but I guess you had your reasons. All that being said the memorial was erected for the fallen WWI comrades and a group of vets got together on VFW land and decided to place this memorial here in the Mojave as a jester of goodwill and rememberance. Not a penny had been spent from our taxes to take care of this memorial up until Frank's objection. One man kept his promise to look over and take care of the memorail and he has. Frank should be footing the bill for his ideology and the mess he has left in his wake. Freedom doesn't come cheap Frank. And I would not lift one finger to help pay for your ridiculous case if I had the chance to vote on this.The VFW donated the land to the government clearly with the intent of mind that no one would be bothered by this and the government took it. So why cry over it Frank? Why did you do this? I am pointing my finger at you...the ACLU is just your henchmen. You will live with this the rest of your life and so will any from the ACLU who continue this fight. What I would like to know is what would you say to the family members of the fallen WWI veterans. Frank are you prepared for that? How about you the ACLU? Can you really defend yourselves against the ultimate price for your freedom? Face to face Frank and the ACLU, face to face. It's real easy to go on a website and spue, it's real easy to run home and get your Daddy. But it's a whole lot different when you have to face up to the people that this will affect generations to come. Forethought is a welcome idea Frank. Take some serious time to reflect on respect of the missions carried out by these fallen ones to defend us and you. Respect their efforts to keep us safe from harm. Respect is all that was truely memorialized out in the desert. It just happened to be under the cross chosen by the ones that erected it. It doesn't say anywhere to become Christian and believe in me, it simple says remember.

gravymeister July 20, 2009 6:33 pm (Pacific time)

I am not a Christian, but I hereby cast my vote to allow the feds to sell a few hundred square feet of land to any organization that wants to buy it and maintain the cross.

Keyslammer July 20, 2009 10:28 am (Pacific time)

It's almost laughable that this is even an issue. Common sense is so uncommon these days. If I came across a "religious symbol" in the middle of nowhere, I would not be offended. It is one of our constitutional rights to worship as we please. The problem with society is that we've become so narrow minded and take aim at things that are SO unimportant. I can only guess that the plaintiff in this case probably offends more people in a year than this symbol has in it's entire existence. This short commentary of mine will likely do so as well. So let's get a little more grounded. I'm not going to protest unless someone plants a cross (or the star of David) over the US Capitol building. Let's lose the foul language too...it certainly doesn't add any credence to your arguments. This whole affair can be boiled down into two words "good grief". Oh, and I must point out that many people view the ACLU as the last standing bastion of protection in this country. They fight for true Atheism and our freedom from offense by any and all religions (although all evidence would indicate that they single out Judeo-Christian issues). Personally, I see the ACLU as corrupt and a complete waste of time and $$ with mouth pieces like Sharpton and Jackson.

Cliff July 19, 2009 2:03 pm (Pacific time)

All data concerning Frank Buono - address, phone, family etc - should be published on the Web so that Americans can evaluate what actions against him would be appropriate. People like him should be made to pay for their anti-American actions against our vetrans and nation.

liberal hater July 15, 2009 9:36 pm (Pacific time)

o.k. mr. editor you seem to be confusing the war (Iraq) now, for the war(s) that are forefathers fought. are we not talking about a 70- year old cross?? maybe you want uncle adolf babysitting your son??? perhaps mr. hitler can give him a shower?? you slack jaw ass, you blame the fighting men and women for a political decision.. jack ass.. may we should have tea time or still have slavery because the men and women who came before us did not suffer.. what was your hardest moment?? did you make an ultimate sacrifice for something??? did you ever know what it is like to try to do something that will make our nation better (not political b.s.) but for our future generations i highly doubt it.

Editor: Martinis must go down smooth at this time of night eh? I won't bore you with details, but I am a former Marine, and I've covered the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can see my reports, my name is Tim King; I love our military and I show it by constantly rallying for veterans, PTSD, everything. And I have been there in Iraq and I know what a mortar attack is. I know what a .50 caliber and a 240 sound like in unison tearing up a Taliban position in Afghanistan. I hate the politics that have gotten so damned many people killed. You and I could probably sit down and talk about WWII for five hours. I am as big of a military history fan as you will ever meet. My point is that it isn't about "liberal" labeling BS. Can't we just be together as Americans? Please try to not be poisoned by those idiots on AM radio that constantly make people look bad if they aren't bona fide neocons. I love my country and I would give my life in defense of veterans. Who is is by the way that is making the whole PTSD problem so bad? It is a right wing think tank and a woman named Dr. Sally Satel of the American Enterprise Institute. She is trying to rewrite the VA's policies so doctors and therapists, "don't reach too quickly for the permanent disability form". Their job right now is to downplay PTSD, Satel says "PTSD is not a permanent problem for veterans." That is an outright fabrication.

The team of advocates that I work endlessly with on all the veteran's stories, including our exposure of the TCE contamination at my old base El Toro Marine Air Station, and Camp Lejeune, and everything else, are mostly what you would call liberal. You wouldn't hate them.

liberal hater July 15, 2009 9:08 pm (Pacific time)

i tell you what liberals go tell the men and women fighting for your rights that you want to tear down one of their monuments because you useless scumbags are offended.. i find it it funny that we as a nation have to appeal to the minority ALL of the time or else we are not progressive. WE WOULD BE NOTHING WITH OUT OUR MILITARY!!! Let the symbol that was erected by a veteran stand to remember their friends that were killed in defense of the liberties yu abuse.....

Editor: Yes, like I tell my son, if you want that apple pie, you have to be real men and attack innocent nations that didn't so much as lift a finger to hurt yours. Hell yes, bombs away, that makes everyone a man. Kill for the sport, kill to kill, kill and get addicted and then become a PTSD victim who blows his own brains out. Yes, I agree about those liberal scum, caring for babies and poor people, weak! You don't need food and schools, you just need guns, and attitude and ego. Strap yourself in a HUMVEE and activate the Blue Force Tracker and feel the power, feel the rage. What would we do without fine examples of humanity like "liberal hater". I mean he's on the record, he knows what it means to be an American.

Anne July 14, 2009 3:33 pm (Pacific time)

Would there be the same outrage if it were a Muslim symbol? Somehow I doubt it. There were undoubtedly Muslim, Jewish and Atheist soldiers that died for their country also. What about them? It seems that some Americans need to be reminded that not everyone has the same beliefs as they do.

Mike July 9, 2009 8:19 am (Pacific time)

If the Supreme Court ruled the cross Constitutional... why is it still covered?

Bob Cone July 8, 2009 5:43 pm (Pacific time)

It seems that some Americans need to be reminded where the veterans come from and why they will be missed when they do not return to their families and the life they put on the line for those that do not appreciate

Lori June 15, 2009 7:54 pm (Pacific time)

God Carried a cross for us, and these crosses honoring our men and women represent the crosses they beared and carried for us and other country's. God died for us, the Soldiers Died for Us and some are still dying. And I could never believe God would deny them a cross representing all they stood for , Just as it represents all he died for.

Malcolm Todd June 10, 2009 8:03 am (Pacific time)

It's a symbol, yes it is a Christian Cross, but more than anything that is what this group chose because I'm certain at the time the vast majority of these folks were Christians and SO WHAT! It honors everyone who was lost... I'm not a Christian but I believe that in this country you have a right to believe whatever is in your heart to believe. I can't understand how anyone is offended by any of this? This cross represents to me those who this country lost in WWI. It is a proud but simple memorial to those brave souls!

Jim Davis, Veterans-For-Change June 3, 2009 12:15 pm (Pacific time)

I honestly don't see why people can't simply accept the symbol as unitarian? What's next? Taking any symbol to recognize anyone who has served our Country where countless millions refused? NOw we see the Star of David, the Cross, and now lately it's been approved to allow the wican symbol as well. Who cares what symbol is used to recognize our fallen service men and women? Isn't this all rather petty? Especially for someone who is "Roman Catholic" they too use the cross.

Corey June 3, 2009 10:10 am (Pacific time)

I guess there are some people out there who would like to see all federally run cemeteries, maybe private ones also, remove all the "crosses" from the gravesites. I have my father, mother, several uncles, one brother and many friends that are buried in these cemetaries, and under the "cross." I have never met a veteran who has felt that this was inappropriate, much less questioned it. I have met many non-veterans who have objected, but their reasoning has always been faulty and essentially mean spirited. In what I hope will be in the distant future, both myself and my wife will be buried in a cemetary as referenced above. Everyone should be allowed to honor their dead, regardless of their religious affiliation, and this is done all over the world.

Vic June 3, 2009 8:36 am (Pacific time)

Lets be honest here...this cross honors CHRISTIAN war dead. Were only Christian American soldiers killed in WW1? That being said, this Buono guy needs to get a life.

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