A Failing Grade for US Public Education

A number of precisely implemented changes could reverse trends that have caused the U.S. to lose its place as a world education leader.

(SALEM, Ore.) - These days the United States is falling behind the rest of the world in the education of its next generations. It seems, unfortunately, that about a quarter or more of US students graduate, or get a GED (if they do not drop out entirely), without the ability to read English, communicate in the language in its written form, do even rudimentary mathematics, demonstrate even the most basic understanding of how the country was founded and how it operates (civics) etc.

Kids from other nations, it seems, by the time they graduate from high school have a better, deeper and more well rounded education than US students often do who have received a two, and sometimes four, year degree from college!

Far too many students and graduates in the US cannot even explain how their own government works or point to the US on a globe, much less point to the nations we are currently sending our military personnel to fight and possibly die in. Far too many graduates are brought to tears if asked to make even simple change in cash transactions. While it is used every day by nearly everyone very few can accurately explain exactly what electricity is and how it works.

This is unacceptable and unless it is turned around the future of this nation is dire indeed!

End the policy of social promotion, moving a kid along not because they learned but because they just got older.

End the policy where 'helicopter parents' are able to dictate to teachers that their 'little precious' be treated differently than all other students.

Have night classes available for those who due to financial need would otherwise drop out because they must work to support their family.

No welfare or other safety net programs should be available to those who drop out of school refusing to complete to graduation. If you are not willing to put in the basic effort to make yourself self-sufficient then society has no obligation to carry you on its back. This is similar to the penalties for failing to register for the draft.

The GED option must be made a TRUE equivalency. To get a GED one would be required to successfully pass ALL THE SAME tests and requirements of anyone in the mainstream educational process. It would no longer be the cheap, quick and easy joke that it is today.

Institute testing at every grade from first on up, and test all subjects. If a student's test results show them lacking skills needed for the next grade they do not advance until they pass ALL subjects. They can get a second try after summer school but if they fail this they are held back, period!

Do away with 'multiple guess' exams returning to essay responses and blank answer spots where work is shown how they arrived at their answers. Yes, this makes grading more time consuming but the multiple guess model often shows only a student's ability to guess rather than accurately gauging their solid knowledge of the topic.

Institute strict and demanding curricula. Graduation would require at least pre-calculus, algebra, trigonometry, geometry and linear algebra. Solid foundation in geography and sociology and economics. Solid foundation in history, understanding how and why events occurred not just rote memorization of meaningless dates and names. At least one year of EACH biology, chemistry and physics. Solid fluency in at least one language in use today other than English with solid written and spoken fluency in English.

ESL courses only available for two years. All students would be expected to become competent in that time period and if they fail to do so they would be held back in the non-mainstreamed (special needs) classes until they are up to scratch.

Mainstream only students capable of being mainstreamed. Those who are disruptive or whose abilities are lower to a degree that it slows the education of the rest of the class are unacceptable detriments to the education of all the other students.

Mandate gifted student programs, access to which would be determined by the results of the annual tests.

Minimize 'extra credit' that is currently used to 'make up' for failing grades but have nothing to do with actually knowing the required material.

Doing away with grades in excess of 4.0. 4.0 is perfect, You cannot get better than perfect and extra credit should never allow such to even be considered much less actualized.

Mandate, from 6th grade on, public service hours being done by the students for the elderly, disabled and civic groups in the area of the school.

Driver education should be mandatory and paid for by the schools. It is a public safety issue that every student be capable of driving a car and to be able to do so safely with a sound knowledge of the rules and laws of the road.

Physical education should not just be a matter of attendance. If they have a specific medical issue that should be take into account but, barring glandular disorders etc, there is no excuse for a student to graduate in an obese state.

Students not planning on going to college should be presented with trade skill options including journeyman apprenticeships where applicable. All public education in the US should be publicly financed through a 2 year degree instead of just high school, alternatively through the completion of a trade skill training and/or apprenticeship for such jobs as construction, welding, auto/truck repair, computer repair, plumbing, etc.The added costs will be more than made up by the increased taxes on the higher incomes such graduates would likely get as well as with being trained for living wage jobs there would be a reduced demand for welfare, etc.

Classes in ethics, not morality, should be mandatory. Right and wrong and how to be a good citizen without religion based overtones.

Classes in comparative religions, non-judgmentally done, so that students understand the basic precepts of the other faiths so they are less likely to be swayed by the lies one faith says about another.

Classes in basic skills for day to day life would be mandatory. Credit, how to get it, and protect it and understanding it. Banking in general, including savings being an important aspect for one's safe future being emphasized. Basic intelligent shopping skills, cooking and so on. ALL students should be required to gain these basic living skills.

Classes in critical thinking and basic debating skills as well as public speaking skills should be mandatory.

Classes on basic parenting - what is expected of parents and what is expected of children, in a reasonable model not the 'parent as buddy' irresponsible model. Individuals would be free to choose other methods to raise their own kids but they would at least have had a basic training in real competent parenting skills.

Institute policy where schools are open 12 months of the year with any given student being in classes the 180 days but staggered so while some kids are in 'summer school' it might be in any season. This would allow more efficient use of buildings etc and reduce class sizes. I see no reason for schools to be largely vacant for such long periods.

Parent-Teacher meetings would be done after or before school hours not durng school hours. Education should not be disrupted by such in service days etc.

Teachers should be paid much more than they currently are. They are exceptionally highly educated and are required to rigorously continue their educations and this should be reflected in pay. They also have one of the most important jobs educating our youth, and that should be reflected as well.

Administration should be minimized to that which is necessary to do the job. The leviathanistic administrations of some schools are truly disgusting where administrators and support staff significanly outnumber teachers. This is unacceptable and is a waste of vital education resources best utilized to educate not administrate.

I fully understand that probably everyone will shriek and howl at my suggestions... the teachers, the administrators, the parents and the students. I feel that the fact that everyone will find something to not like about it shows that it should be done. Most in all sectors have become used to how things are. They have become complacent and do not want change as that would mean more work. But the resultant outcomes will be worth the added effort.

While not mandatory I would strongly like to see strict dress codes, if not school uniforms. Uniformity in dress reduces many distractions and other problems in schools. I would like to see three uniforms, if that route is taken, provided to the student by the school. Any extras or replacements would be the responsibility of the family with funds made available to assist low income families in need in such circumstances.

If all of these policies and requirements are put into place I have no doubt that in two decades the quality of graduates and workforce in the US would restore our nation to the position of leadership in the world we once held but have now since lost. The benefits will be found to have far outweighed the costs, efforts and inconveniences experienced and the graduates would have a far better mindset than they currently seem to have regarding all aspects of their lives snd their interrelations within society.

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Godsofchaos January 7, 2008 4:56 pm (Pacific time)

"That is why you always challenge these genetic misfits."Jefferson Genetics? I think it has more to do that their used to living in a vacuum of information not realizing that their are other forms of thought beyond their own.

Jefferson January 7, 2008 12:34 pm (Pacific time)

Godofchaos there is an old axiom monster's like Golda Meir, ad nauseum would always go by, and it stretches back to those desert bazzar barker days of their past up to the present: "Keep doing what you're doing until you wear them down." That is why you always challenge these genetic misfits... they eventually go back into their holes, and wait. Times have changed, maybe it is time to more fully expose this rabble.

Godsofchaos January 7, 2008 12:13 pm (Pacific time)

"and your apparent dishonesty and ignorance in reference to it."Neal Feldman Once again you think you are more special and smarter that only you can define reality. "I am able to see what reality is,"Neal Feldman Sorry didn't know you defined my existence. Reality is based on world views not 100% infallibility. Christians for example have different view on reality than atheists. Christaians believe that reality is this world is a temporary one while atheists believe this world as the only one. Do you see how reality can be different depending on your world view. Another example the North in the Civil War saw slavery as an abomination the South saw slavery as necessary.Now you may disagree with the Southerns view on reality but it was their view on reality. "And there are many views of reality but the sane and reasonable ones are based on reality not the denial of it."Neal Feldman Coming from the man who said. "No, I do not define reality and never have I claimed to do so."Neal Feldman So if you don't define reality than tell me how do you know my view on reality is insane? Specifics please.

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 11:24 am (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - More straw man dishonesty on your part again. No, I do not define reality and never have I claimed to do so. I am able to see what reality is, however, as any sane honest person can.You have already proven yourself dishonest... are you trying to disprove sanity in reference to yourself as well? You are making a good stat for it. LOL! And there are many views of reality but the sane and reasonable ones are based on reality not the denial of it. As for all the -isms, not all of them are based on reality. In fact quite a large number aren't. But I'm not commenting here on every -ism on the plane, I'm commenting on your apparent lack of familiarity with reality (there is only one reality... many opinions about it, but only one defined reality) and your apparent dishonesty and ignorance in reference to it. Ah well...

Godsofchaos January 7, 2008 11:07 am (Pacific time)

"Your inability to deal with reality as well as your inherent dishonesty duly noted again."Neal Feldman Oh so now you define reality. Your open mindedness is overwhelming me.(sarcasm) Tell me this who defines reality? Everyone has their own view of what the world is.Why do you think their is so many "isms".

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 11:04 am (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - More factless BS from you. You asked for an example and sure enough your very next comment in the thread provided it. Your desperately dishonest rewording of my text is just one example of your dishonesty and inability to deal with reality. I never stated mine is the only true position but I have shown where yours are clearly not true and honestly and accurately presented positions and you have yet to prove that my statements are anything other than the true, honest and accurate statements I have said they are. The best you can seem to do(which is quite feeble and pathetic initself) is to rewrite my words into a straw man and then dishonestly attempt to apply the straw man of your fabrication to me. You continue to prove me right about ou and your ilk constantly yet seem to remain far too dim to realize it even when it is pointed out to you. And it is amusing that you, whose posting history clearly demonstrates you to be inconsiderate, falsely accuse me of being inconsiderate. I am neither overly hasty, acting without consideration or acting without due regard for the rights or feelings of others... I give full DUE consideration... but nothing says that has to be the overriding concern in a reasonable standard. And for the likes of you or Jefferson or the few others whining, crying and bleating about how 'mean' I am I just suggest you look in the mioor (and your posting history' and you will see yourselves as some of the biggest hypocrites. If you think your posting history has been a beacon of consideration, niceness, kindness and politeness then you are more deluded than Jefferson (and that is saying a lot!) Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 10:53 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson - Your inability to deal with reality as well as your inherent dishonesty duly noted again. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 10:51 am (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - just about everything you spew that I have responded to. Beyond that I have better things to do than cull through old posts. But I am pretty specific each time I reply. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 10:49 am (Pacific time)

Anne - So you and Jefferson are the pot and kettle then? Which is which? You see with the ilk like Jefferson I'm not trying to convince them since what passes for their mind is so welded shut through non-use and ignorant idiocy there is zero likelihood of it happening. So I merely point out the truth about their bilge so others do not make the mistake pf thinking there is anything legitimate ever coming from them. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 7, 2008 10:46 am (Pacific time)

Jason - I'm just speaking the truth accurately. It seems to be you wagging the finger. You always project so much? Ah well...

Jefferson January 7, 2008 9:19 am (Pacific time)

Godofchaos, good catch on the below feldman quote. It's amazing how people of this ilk are so oblivious to cause and effect...they never see how their actions(words) are more often than not, the catalyst for what comes down the pike. Clear thinking and rational people will generally get their bearings and change their ways, maybe even admit their primary role in negative behaviors (even if just to themselves), but the narcissistic personality is simply not capable. The drug industry just loves these types...

Godsofchaos January 5, 2008 2:40 pm (Pacific time)

"I speak truthfully and see no point in sugar coating the truth."Neal Feldman I like this one better. I.E. I am Neal Fledman and the reason I am so inconsiderate is my viewpoint is the only true one and anyone that disagrees with me is a liar. So open-minded. (sarcasm)

Jefferson January 5, 2008 9:39 am (Pacific time)

People, feldman's below quote pretty much sums up what's going on with this child. You cannot reason with this "one", so save your energy for meaningful communications. Life is too short to deal with people like this, unless it is part of your profession, say as a mental health worker...then publish and educate others about this feldman child, unfortunately they go forth and multiply. "I speak from a position of reasoned intellect while they often do not and I refrain from the use of profanity while they often do not."

Godsofchaos January 4, 2008 8:59 pm (Pacific time)

"If they are factless buffoons why should I care what they think?"Neal Feldman Fact: Something that actually exists; Please tell me what I said that is lacking of fact. Specifics please if I made gross error I would like to correct it.

Anne January 4, 2008 7:49 pm (Pacific time)

"If their intent was to get me to see their point of view their execution was so radically inept it was akin to being in a methane filling mine and lighting a match to try and see better... with similarly likely results." Pot, meet kettle.

Jason January 4, 2008 7:27 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, Pound your chest too hard and you might bruise something... :) Hasn't your finger gotten a little sore from all the wagging?

Neal Feldman January 4, 2008 5:53 pm (Pacific time)

Jason - You saw no attack huh? Interesting. The attacks, pedantic as they were and as impotently enacted, were as clear as day to me. Falsely accusing me of doing something I am not doing I take as an attack. Pathetically whining that I am 'losing their support' is a form of attack. Pretty much there was nothing but attack in the entire comment, concise though it might have been. And neither you nor anyone else has shown me to be 'immature' in my writing. So you can cease running down that path. If their intent was to get me to see their point of view their execution was so radically inept it was akin to being in a methane filling mine and lighting a match to try and see better... with similarly likely results. And I have never demanded anyone agree with everything I say.. just that if they are going to claim I am wrong that they actually be capable of supporting such a claim intelligently and reasonably with legitimacy and credibility... not just delusional rantings and ravings like a few I could name employ. I speak truthfully and see no point in sugar coating the truth. I find bluntness to cut through the BS and long ago gave up caring what factless buffoons might think of me. If they are factless buffoons why should I care what they think? Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 4, 2008 5:42 pm (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - You pathetically feeble attempt to misrepresent my words is duly noted and easily deflected. I said what I said, not what you tried to twist it to. You really need to learn to deal with the world as it is instead of how you delude yourself it is. And the truth is always a defense. I do not bother with excuses. And I also do not call names or assassinate character... I merely state the truth. If you cannot deal with the truth that is hardly my problem and just because the truth may not be complimentary is no reason to not point it out. Your whines about what you respect or not are meaningless to me. You should know that by now. You have given me no reason to care what you think and a great deal to consider the opposite. And your complete lack of comprehension re: facts only supports my positions regarding you. Thank you for presenting your laughable nonsense to remove all doubt from the equation. As for being civil I have found you to not be so as such your whining for civility is nothing but hypocritical whining and ignored as such. You had your chance and you blew it.. you made your bed now you can lie in it. Simple as that. I live by the golden rule (Treat others as you wish to be treated) modified by the modified golden rule (treat others as they have treated you). Though even in extreme cases I still do not treat others as badly as they have treated me as I still speak truthfully while they often do not, I speak from a position of reasoned intellect while they often do not and I refrain from the use of profanity while they often do not. But asking me to treat lying idiots as anything but lying idiots, for example, is not civility... it is stupidity and is inherently unreasonable on your part to request/demand. And I have never claimed to be God... and your whine in that aspect coming from someone pasting as 'Godsofchaos' is even past the pale of ridiculous.... and it is not disagreeing with me, per se, that demonstrates denial of reality. It is that my positions are based on reality aka the facts while those you present are clearly based on fantasy/delusion/lies aka not reality. You can whine about it, cry about it and initiate your pathetically feeble attempts to attack me because of it and you will not alter the fact of how laughable you are. Period. I would suggest you learn to deal with it but you have already demonstrated that learning and dealing are at least two (of a long list) concepts you are ill-equipped to handle. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 4, 2008 5:27 pm (Pacific time)

John Paul Ropers - yup 'demented chipmunk'. Looks like you, too, fail to meet even that low bar. Ah well...

Jason January 4, 2008 1:20 pm (Pacific time)

What a bizarre response from Neal to Please Take My Advice. I thought the post was concise and well-written without any direct attack against Neal. Neal's response? Immediately indicating that the writer was in the same "ilk" as those who disagree with Neal on other issues. I did not read the post as being anti-Neal, but trying to get Neal to be more mature in his postings. He is not, after all, a child, but a grown adult and should be able to control his impulses. Apparently nothing will ever get through to him. Go ahead Neal, and attack me for being of the same "ilk" as well. But, I like you and do not despise you, devoutly or otherwise. I respect your ability to write, regardless of whether I agree with everything you have to say.

Godsofchaos January 4, 2008 9:04 am (Pacific time)

"If I am devoutly despised by those like you I am clearly doing something right."Neal Feldman I.E. I am an A-hole and a revel in it. "You do not like this, which considering the facts I consider to be a good thing."Neal Feldman Neal Feldman the "truth" is not an excuse. Tim King tells me what’s on his mind without resorting to name-calling and character assassination that is why I respect him and hold his opinion vastly higher than yours. There is nothing wrong with being civil. Also if your facts were so universal than everyone would be the same human being. Facts are based on perception. Several people can witness the same event differently. That is what makes us human. That is why debates exist. Coming form you it sounds like to disagree with you is disagree with reality. Hate to break it to but last time I checked you are not God.

John Paul Ropers January 4, 2008 4:07 am (Pacific time)

"demented chipmunk"? Looks like the wicked old witch of Salem is making an fool of himself. Feldman has nothing of substance in this discussion but a bunch of conjecture and empty lingo. Because I stumbled on this site never really having heard of it before, I suspect the lackies operating it have little chance of it becoming a publication worth attention. So, what do they pay you guys in, meatballs?

Neal Feldman January 4, 2008 1:01 am (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - 1) this is a discussion not a debate. Anyone with a lick of sense and an IQ higher than that of a demented chipmunk knows this. 2) It is you and your ilk that practice name-calling, not I. But then again you and those like you are so disingenuous or outright dishonest that you take any statement or description that is not dripping with compliment to be 'name-calling'. Not surprising since with the absence of anything legitimate, credible or logical to say all you have left is to whine that the truth puts you in a bad light. Poor baby, the world's smallest violin plays just for you. I have found there is nothing to be gained by 'playing nice' with your ilk and everything to be gained by immediately and consistently identifying you and your aspects accurately. You do not like this, which considering the facts I consider to be a good thing. If I am devoutly despised by those like you I am clearly doing something right. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 4, 2008 12:55 am (Pacific time)

Please Take My Advice - As you suggested your claim that I am 'losing your support' will have no influence upon my positions. I am trying to be honest, accurate and correct... I'm not running for public office or for some other form of popularity contest. And as a general rule I do not call names. I do accurately identify. It is not the same thing. Seeing someone express bigotry and therevy pointing them out as a bigot is accurate identification, not name calling. Saying someone is a jerk is name-calling as basically all you are saying is that you dislike them. Not everyone seems able to comprehend the difference. I blame the failed education system for this (see article). You say I argue with those who disagree with me. Are you trying to seem stupid or something? You think, instead, I should argue with those who agree with me then? LOL! You claim my positions are not well thought out without presenting anything to support your claim. It seems that you are attacking me while hypocritically falsely accusing me of attacking others. I do not generally attack others. Again some cannot seem to distinguish between accurately pointing out the facts directly without being mealymouthed about it and 'attacking'. I am also not a religious leader so am not in need of converts. If someone is too dim to see the sense in what I say that is not my problem, same as if they are ill-equipped to challenge my positions. If I am right then I remain so een if no one else on the planet accepts it. Being right has nothing to do with popularity. In fact those who are right are often the least popular for the fact. Guess it is a good thing I could not possibly care less what you think of me so if you think such a ridiculous appeal, especially from behind a nickname, is going to sway me in the slightest I tell you to stop wasting your time now. Ah well...

Godsofchaos January 3, 2008 10:50 pm (Pacific time)

"Just my Opinion."Please Take My Advice Agreed. Neal Feldman approach to a debate is defiantly not been one wits and logic but have been of name-calling. It is my hope that one day he will clean up his act and debate with reason.

Please Take My Advice January 3, 2008 6:03 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, you continue to lose my support, as if you care. You argue with those (and call names) who disagree with you. Democratic? No. Fair, No. Are you going to respond to this post the same way, by attacking me, Yes. Someone needs to get through to you that, while your job may not be to cajole, simply influencing the reader by well thought-out pieces is better than the cantankerous approach you have apparently adopted. You ain't going to get any converts the way you treat people. Just my Opinion.

Neal Feldman January 3, 2008 3:38 pm (Pacific time)

Jefferson - Actually we have delusional and dishonest wingnuts like you who are the one doing what you falsely accuse Henry and I of. It is called projection.. look it up in DSM-IV some time. You are a pathetic and petty little coward with only the most tenuous grip o reality, if that. You continue to prove this over and over again. So keep trying to peddle your lies and neocon fantasies,... all you do is conclusively support the findings that show your ilk as thinking themselves the best informed while clearly being the worst informed segment of society. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 3, 2008 3:35 pm (Pacific time)

Anne - your reference to 'leash' and your repetetive statements in that line are what I refer to when I point out your penchant for supporting censorship of those you disagree with. Leash=censorship... your constant whining that I'm 'still on staff' reeks of censorship. Get a clue. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 3, 2008 3:32 pm (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - then you are imagining things because one cannot backpedal from where they never were. I stated it quite clearly and it was in response to your side saying I would not be willing to say what I say to their face and I simply replied I sure would just say when and where. I am not a coward... I leave that to the likes of Jefferson and yourself. Ah well...

Godsofchaos January 2, 2008 7:30 pm (Pacific time)

"Not to challenge to a knife fight or anything equally stupid that was suggested, but to speak words in their presence."Neal Feldman I see someone backpedaling.

Jefferson January 2, 2008 6:43 pm (Pacific time)

Anne as you have no doubt noticed, we have the tag team of Feldman and Henry/TFI. These are narcissistic personalities, they will continue to ignore facts/data or respect any opinion that is in conflict with theirs. Away from their computer, they are very small and very angry individuals who no doubt became emotionally arrested during their childhood. You sure are correct about them making up stuff and attributing it to you and others. A very classic far left tactic...just don't take their comments personally, just like you would also ignore other people who are devoid of reasonable communication skills... Feldman my background with the DSM goes back long before IV, and it was from an academic perspective related to the behavorial sciences while in the military. You simply do not have the foundation, much less education (obviously!) to understand, though I'm sure you have picked up a lot of jargon during your treatments, which I imagine my tax money is paying for. More money down the rat hole...

Anne January 2, 2008 7:17 am (Pacific time)

Neal: "So which Forum where the censorship you so devoutly revere reigns do you mean then? And I put no words in anyone's mouth. The poster sounded like you and was vague in their reference. Please be specific." The comment you refer to ("Yeah, I think these comment sections should go the way the Forum did...") was, again, not made by me, so I'm in no position to explain it, but you sure seem to have read an awful lot into it... and twisted into a meaning that you're attributing to the poster. Personally I took it to mean that this site previously had forums that have been done away with, but I don't know. And I have not once called for censorship of you or anyone else. What I have noted is the distinct lack of a leash on you by the management here...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 11:29 pm (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - Not everyone who disagrees with me is a deceitful moron. You are, of course, but that does not mean everyone is. Some are misinformed, some are misguided, some are confused. But if you demonstrate yourself to be an idiot I will point it out. If you present yourself dishonestly I will point that out too. Deal with it. Don't just sit there and cry a river about it. It is pathetic. Your name suggests masculine attribute so grow a pair. Geez! Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 11:26 pm (Pacific time)

Anne - Oh how perfectly PRECIOUS! Little Anne over here trying to pedantically chide me for 'putting words into others' mouths' (when I did no such thing) but then turns around and falsely tries to put words in MY mouth. Oh the irony of her hypocrisy exquisite! In point of fact I never said "Say that to my face" as she claimed. In point of fact, in response to the coward's (you know who I mean) challenge that I (or others) would not be willing to say what we were saying to their (or who we were talking to's) face I simply said where and when because I have no issue with saying anything I have posted here to the face of whom I posted it to. Not to challenge to a knife fight or anything equally stupid that was suggested, but to speak words in their presence. If they chose to attack me I would, of course, defend myself, but being in a wheelchair I tend to not make a lot of knife fight challenges you see... which is why I found the whole response quite hysterically amusing). Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 11:17 pm (Pacific time)

Anne - That others such as yourself have a problem dealing with the truth and prefer censorship does not surprise me at all. After all if put up for a public vote the first amendment would likely never pass now would it? As for assuming the meaning when referring to Forums in this context is towards the SJ Forums which other commonly known local forums are there? Yahoo is not local. Maybe if you wish to be more clearly understood you might try expressing yourself more clearly. So which Forum where the censorship you so devoutly revere reigns do you mean then? And I put no words in anyone's mouth. The poster sounded like you and was vague in their reference. Please be specific. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 11:12 pm (Pacific time)

What a Site - Whether you are or are not where did I attack you? You were the one attacking, not I. But gee what a thin skin. Ah well...

Godsofchaos January 1, 2008 7:55 pm (Pacific time)

"a reasonable challenge that hopefully will not digress into the "say it to my face" nonsense of his in conversations past."Anne Oh Anne it will. The reason is because Neal Feldman thinks anyone that disagrees with him is stupid and a liar. Neal Feldman’s own words. "You just come across as a deceitful moron."Neal Feldman

Anne January 1, 2008 7:21 pm (Pacific time)

HR: "...while justifying what sometimes became a bit intense from our side." Yes, I've already seen where Editor (Tim?) signed off on Neal's "he started it" defense, and as I said before, I'm done with that conversation. I will however speak up for myself when someone states that I made comments that I didn't. I challenge Neal to find where I said anything about SJ forums -- a reasonable challenge that hopefully will not digress into the "say it to my face" nonsense of his in conversations past.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 6:54 pm (Pacific time)

Anne et al: Appreciate your rapid disclaimer but in defense of Neal (and self, too !) blunder with single-letter easy here...and currently both Neal and I under constant personal and professional attack by neocon effort to unthread this channel if possible...so forgive and forget ! We all have better things to do than waste time, space, and Tim's money on such stupidities as those displayed here in recent days...some from both sides, with ours in pure defense under absolutely no reasonable rationale. Close exam of record, now underway for legal reasons, clearly shows where attack originated and the kinds of indefensible statement that were made via perpetrators, while justifying what sometimes became a bit intense from our side. So I repeat again: "Pathetic old man". Can you image neocon-Bush cabal's joy when possibility of North interview re salary then and "news"-agency pay now is brought to public view in Oregon, key state in upcoming election and other matters ? Last thing neocon hq wants right now is any reminder of realities since Reagan attack on middle class and unions took off, under Bush I and Cheney-then...with insights into Iran-Contra again in the public view, what can follow re actual attack on Iran ? Much, much more...but you get the first glimmerings of the actual reality in political picture now. Perhaps now we can begin to get back to decent conversation with each other, in pursuit of what we can then learn, and move on towards some of the really intense efforts we need on the really intense problems we all face, given the ongoing impacts of eight years under increasing neocon control and manipulation.

Anne January 1, 2008 5:29 pm (Pacific time)

Twasn't me, but so hard to believe someone else would have the same point of view? As for "But the (SJ) Forums she lauds for their censorship are not really any different... " Um, I've never once referenced SJ... Not once. Further proof of the habitual putting-words-in-others'-mouths problem of Neal's.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 3:40 pm (Pacific time)

Neal et al: I participated in main Forum in Salem for some years, dunno whether one to which you refer. Each was signed in by edict of Yahoo, who ran technology. Each was given user-name or you could sign real one if you wished. Each person was held both responsible and accountable for every word sent. We did fine, beat on each other solidly, learned much from many in special situations, and never had to resort to fulmination or threat of violence to achieve civilized conversation in the Dewey mode and format. We were diverse bunch, not b any means all eggheads or politicians or writers or any one other variety or tribe. Which made for strength and strong possibilities for some solid learnings otherwise impossible or highly unlikely, as in operation of City Council opened up by insiders participating then. It is not only possible but absolutely essential that this channel return to precisely that kind of civilized, responsible, accountable form, once on the way to achievement here, now damaged, dangling and distressed due to determined neocon atttack for malign purposes clearly evident in shape, statement, continuation, content, and other components extremely visible and readable to any open-minded person. As stated, freedom is not free, but demands from all who hope to share in it both responsibility and personal accountability. It operates only for those who can recognize it, appreciate it, and continue ready to honor it in action. For others, it is gone with arrival of neocon contrivance, manipulation, and malign intent, well demonstrated here, and in action in other similar open channel situations across the nation, as described. Per usual, documentation in detail and depth available on ID to editor --if I can still find it in 40-yr files under final-use culling here now.

What a Site January 1, 2008 2:23 pm (Pacific time)

Neal, I am not Anne, and where do you get off attacking me? You just provided proof for my point. It appears as if you are only on board to jab at others. Why is that, and does the company owner agree with your attitude? I think maybe you need some meds or something. Maybe anger/hostility management?

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 2:20 pm (Pacific time)

Henry Ruark - re the censorship proposing contributor - I agree with you that the deterioration is due to the few rabid neocons and bigots. Such as Anne (and this other person if not Anne under a new name) who call for censorship clearly only do so because they cannot argue against what I or others present so she wishes for censorship policies to do her sanitizing for her. I have no trouble at all dealing with the likes of Jefferson, GoC or others of that stripe. (mainly wude and yellow down the back as a general rule). But the (SJ) Forums she lauds for their censorship are not really any different... they just exclude some and elevate others while those elevated do more of which got some banned than the banned persons ever did. Inconsistency thy name is censorship. Here they censor only profanity and spam (and some incitatory comments). I do not always agree with the editors on it but at least it is far better than the useless (SJ) Forums this person seems to hold in such high regard. I gold them in contempt due to the clear inconsistency in their censorship. If they would censor equally it might be one thing but to do that would mean to shut itself down entirely. Maybe at this point they just should considering who they have holding court over there. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

Had Enough - - I am going to CNN - cry much? Need a hankie? (or a binkie?) I love how your definition of 'tirade' seems centered on what agrees with you or not. You have no conceot at all about free speech. As for the 'employee' jab I presume you mean me and maybe Henry. Interesting neither of us use namecalling or profanity. I tend to be somewhat more blunt when I speak the truth and Henry a bit more oblique about it, but any credible analysuis would show it is those we oppose who do as you rant about far more... interesting how you left them out of your little snit. From the tone I take it you are the one who sometimes posts as Anne. I may be wrong but I think it fits. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 1:31 pm (Pacific time)

Jefferson - re: richest senators etc. Jealous much? It is not a matter of what you have that determines if one is the party of the rich or not but what one promotes with one's actions. It is abundantly clear that all in all the GoP (neocon party) is out primarily for corporate america and the modern day robber barons and cannot care less about the poor or middle class (except around election time when their lies flow like tidal waves). I do not care about the personal wealth of representatives or senators I care about how they vote and what their votes do. I see the GoP trying to dismantle/destroy Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid. I see them trying to funnel money away from the schools most in the public use and into their selective private country club schools. I see them siding with corporations and management over the people/customers and unions almost entirely. Also their sops to the religious reich do not endear them to me much either. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 1:22 pm (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - So basically thinly veiled use of profanity and name calling... nor surprising. Jefferson continues to be self-discrediting. Ah well...

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 1:18 pm (Pacific time)

Henry Ruark - Why is Jefferson do deathly afraid? Kinda goes with the territory with delusional paranoids. Ah well...

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 1:17 pm (Pacific time)

Had Enough et al: Could not agree more with your frustrated and obviously angry feelings about deterioration and deflation in dialog here. IF you have followed here in previous month, you will know from whence determined defense originates, with examples of personal attack such as "do nothing, "demented", et al, 50-items deep. Attack is NOT only on staff writers, avoiding highly acceptable and continually sought participation in dialog with diverse views, but also on channel itself, as part of neocon openly acknowledged "noise machines" taken over from overwhelmed GOP, now used for attack across nation on any channels offering public encouragement to "see with own eyes", think "with own brain". on key state, national and international issues. Please note that every one of Comments here on this side come from those of us who are on public record with both credibility-establishing information, and past proof on record of accountability for professional work already pubolished. Do you miss anything similar from others "on attack" ? Seek it from them, and don't hold your breath until you get sensible, responsible, accountable information.

Neal Feldman January 1, 2008 1:16 pm (Pacific time)

Jefferson - Quoting the DSM-IV? You? If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black nothing is. I suggest you lookup delusion/disassociative as well as projection... you may find a picture of yourself. LOL. Ah well...

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 12:20 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Further resort to obvious piled-up obfuscation, most of which is irrelevant and much of which is both distorted and perverted, shows precisely the propangadizing technique detailed in previous Comment. Proper place for any-such is Op Ed, then open to fulll and detailed dialog with both added information and any link to documented (NOT "belly-button feeling "!) data sent without foundation, and without source-and-signature demanded for both credibility and accountability. But what else to expect from pathetic old man ? Only reasons for non/Op Ed participation, he states, is fear for retaliation. Cannot be for simple words here, so must stem from working career, one would be forced to think. IF that's so, wonder what he did "in command" or otherwise to earn such overwhelming fear he now cannot allow himself to be ID'd in public channel ? Yet he has no reluctance to put himself into participation here; very convenient happen-stance,it surely seems. Repeat: Offer Op Ed and state in depth any views you hold. THEN standard rules can apply as in any public channel you can visit, and we can know from what foundation of fact and experience his statements stem, with proper and open, and public, and democratic, response then possible. That avoids domination in depth and depressing frequency here, while avoiding both the ongoing necessities for any professional approach to any dialog: First credibility, established by "by-line"; then accountability, defined by what is behind the by-line. Editor Tim awaits any such approach from Neocon Nonentity, who otherwise needs to stay home and take care of grand-daughters....pardon the term used.

Had Enough - - I am going to CNN January 1, 2008 11:55 am (Pacific time)

Yeah, I think these comment sections should go the way the Forum did... THese comments, on almost all topics, seems to evolve into name calling and spiteful attacks from most all parties. The most disturbing thing is that half of the tirades comes from the site's own employees/contributors.

Jefferson January 1, 2008 9:23 am (Pacific time)

Attention Matt Johnson. Happy New Year! It's my prayer for you Matt that you take the time and explore all sides of an issue. It may just change your life. According to public record, one of every three members of the Senate and one out of every four members of the House are millionaires. Despite popular stereotypes of Republicans as the party of the rich and Democrats as the party of the working class, the wealthiest member of the Senate (John Kerry of Massachusetts) and the wealthiest member of the House (Jane Harman of California) are both Democrats. Of the top six wealthiest senators, five are Democrats. The ownership society has certainly found its way into Congress. But the wealthy Democratic owner class shows little interest in spreading the wealth and opportunity around. House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California, worth over $17 million, is an appropriate spokesperson for the plantation caucus. At an earlier time she stood at a press conference with other Democratic leaders stating uncompromising opposition to personal retirement accounts. The Democrats' message: No negotiation on Social Security until "privatization is off the table." Certainly, Pelosi seems quite comfortable in her ability to manage her own millions. However, the thought of working Americans retaining a few thousand dollars each year of their own earnings to invest in a personal retirement account is so outrageous to her she won't even discuss it. The argument that a private account, ultra-conservatively managed, could at least double the retirement income produced by the current Social Security system doesn't seem to interest Pelosi. Nor does the idea that this would be privately accumulated and owned wealth. When America's political class debated emancipating slaves, an issue that dampened enthusiasm for the idea was the thought that these slaves could simply walk off the plantation and integrate into the nation and live as free people. The owner/masters of today's Democratic plantation reject all attempts to roll back government and give working Americans more choice and freedom. The response is the same whether it's personal retirement accounts or choosing where to send your kid to school. Anything reducing government control gets rejected. Ironically, those of you who pay such homage to this party are not aware of their voting record for civil right's legislation back in the mid 60's. For example Al Gore Sr., voted against all civil rights legislation, all of it! Would you like to know more Matt? Certainly both major party's have their bad moments, it's just that democratic enclaves (think most urban environments) have demonstrated that they simply cannot lead, they just have not provided any evidence that they know what to do, except tax and spend and reduce your freedoms...

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 6:58 am (Pacific time)

To all: Greatest danger in public channels for communication is the inevitable depreciation caused by "the lowest common denominator". That's truism emphasized in several standard texts and also in academic sources for reports about ongoing research over the past century. You can "see with own eyes" that impact and effect --and the consequences-- right here on this solid dialog-creating story from Len. Note who depreciates it, how they operate, from what very obvious motives, and the total damaging impacts. Net result is that channel and therefore your opportunity for open, honest, democratic dialog is truly damaged and you are denied that right --be dint of domination and evident threat of personal attack when you seek only to share and thus learn and grow. There are obvious remedial actions open to S-N management now, becoming inevitable just so long as "the rest of us" allow this to continue --as it already is and has been in Letters columns and elsewhere. That is a great loss for YOU while also reducing the real opportunities for many others.

Henry Ruark January 1, 2008 6:24 am (Pacific time)

GoC: Truth is TFI stands for "Truth, Finally, Inevitably". "See with own eyes" here anytime, and "use own brain", too --but for you that is of course impossible. Do you have grandchildren, too ? Day will come when they ask you: "Why do you hide behind that tree, grand-Dad ?"

Godsofchaos December 31, 2007 7:32 pm (Pacific time)

"What does "Henry/TFI" refer to?"Anonymous My guess is: (TFI = The Fand(*anding Idiot). If you are asking about which person he is referring to than your answer would be Henry Ruark.

Anonymous December 31, 2007 4:28 pm (Pacific time)

What does "Henry/TFI" refer to?

Matt Johnson December 31, 2007 3:08 pm (Pacific time)

The dude jefferson said the other day, "we all know the Democrats are the party of the rich." Just remember that every time he starts ranting and bagging on Henry. Jefferson won't admit who he is and all he does is rant for anything and everything right wing. He is outwitted by Henry all the time and just throws out more BS as a response. Just remember this when he babbles about his causes, Democrats: the party of the rich: total lunacy.

Jefferson December 31, 2007 2:42 pm (Pacific time)

People what disturbs many responsible health professionals is how so many people have evaded appropriate mental health intervention, as Henry/TFI so ably demonstrates. I guess we shall see more grade school level antics coming down the pike. Poor dear.

Henry Ruark December 31, 2007 2:18 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Really no need for more re N-N. This is simply pathetic old man driven by long exposure to militaristic experience. Let's let him go on home, and tend to grand-daughters, if family can trust him there. I wonder re that insistence of his on "girly boy" just how far that symptom should go.

Henry Ruark December 31, 2007 12:08 pm (Pacific time)

To all: "I will continue to use a moniker when I post, I do this for safety reasons, not mine." Wonder why he is so hated as to fear for life, with only ephemeral words in this surely non-dangerous channel ? Rest of what he says reveals precisely his reasons for still hiding behind tree...knowing that if he must provide solid background what little credibility he still has is gone for good. NOW he'll claim that his ostensible service prevents his self-ID, which is crafty way to avoid issue one more time. Reference to family record is again despairing sign of lack of solid sense he can share via own statement, so has to depend on further distressing always-superior claims, all without any proof except his behind-tree pose. Would responsible, accountable long-experienced officer, fit to command troops and order them into life-threatening situations, really respond as he has demonstrated ? Of so, our nation is really in worse shape than even his fantasy "leftist !" and "socialist !" screams... Put up or shut up, with Op Ed open; ID self to editor for direct contact, and face-to-face friendly further discussion, if you have the guts to abandon tree-sniper position.

Jefferson December 31, 2007 9:32 am (Pacific time)

People, Henry/TFI, continues to demonstrate what I predicted he would long ago, i.e. , demonize and belittle those who have a different viewpoint and inform everyone how well educated and experienced he is (he is not, in fact he's quite narrow in his scope of perceiving reality as he constantly acknowledges, maybe this is an unconscious plea for help on his part?). These are basic traits often found in the Diagnostic Survey Manual indicating a narcissitic personality disorder. Ditto for Neal Feldman, except it's even more obvious that his "fund of knowledge" is quite limited. Please note that Henry/TFI will tell you that conservatives have caused great harm to America (and especially to our educational system), this is of course false. The sources he provides to bolster these false claims of his are simply by people who share the same misguided ideology that he does. What I have pointed out is essentially empirical in nature, and regardless of one's education or experience, all you have to do is look at the current situation we have in public education and in our urban area's ("Blue" democratic controlled area's). They are in a horrible state and will continue to get worse if they continue to be controlled by the same type of very poor leadership. Please observe those area's, e.g. , they are sometimes referred to as Red or conservative (they cover nearly 85% of America's land area)...you see low crime rates and low high school drop-out rates, and they have a population that via surveys more often than democratic enclaves, acknowledge higher life satisfation, even when their income is lower than people in the "blue" area's. I will also admit that I am a capitalist (the Founders of America, by the way, were also consevative capitalist's), I have enjoyed a pretty good lifestyle, and my children have done even better. My family can trace our American roots to the 17th century, and I have been very fortunate to have served America in the military, as have many of my children, and currently two of my grandchildren. My biggest fear for our country is if the far left gets anymore power in future elections. If you like the present public education (please note how the leaders of this failed system tell you:"... we just need a little more money to fix it." Note: Look at Washington DC to see where it ain't the money people! Highest money spent per pupil, and the lowest performance rate!)), the deteriorating cities with their crime rates, then people like Henry/TFI are the people you should listen to (remember that socialism has never worked, it only brings a despotic leadership and diminished freedom). I think most of you who have led your lives via common sense already have a good handle on feldman. I will continue to use a moniker when I post, I do this for safety reasons, not mine.

Henry Ruark December 31, 2007 5:49 am (Pacific time)

Neal et al: Some strike for "simplicity" and "summary" on such complex issues as those with which education as process must deal. They often forget that "to simplify" demands choice, by someone, with some level or lack of essential understandings and personal background; and the process of then reporting that "simplification" in turn demands the same components involved in the writing process, too. Thus society long ago has learned that it MUST rely on those who devote lives, time, energies and other skills to the complexities here...even if that requires with some dismiss as "the academic approach". Tht's why generalization in large bites is not only in itself dangerous, but can also create near-impossibilities in discussion OR dialog. But those, too, are demanded since they are the foundations for public understandings on which must depend the actual funding which --as with all else we do in our society-- is the driving heart-and-soul of education-as-process itself. (For those interested, this is simply Education 101 from grad level.)

Neal Feldman December 30, 2007 8:22 pm (Pacific time)

Godsofchaos - I'm not talking about different specialties. I'm talking basic level of education and while a minor majority come out with at least a halfway decent education it could be much better. What difference does it make if other countries keep some of their population uneducated? Is that the model you wish to see emulated here? In global competition our graduates suck, on average, compared to graduates from many other countries. That is a fact, it is getting worse, and needs to be changed. You are self taught... bully for you. Most if left to their own devices would just sit in front of a TV and drool. The US has decided as a national policy to promote public education so that is what the suggestions in the article are aimed at. As for needing to be an engineer to understand the basic concepts of how electricity works I ask 'Since when?' Geez it is one of the simplest concepts yet so few can cogently and coherently explain it. That, to me, is disgusting. If nothing else from a safety standpoint everyone should know the basics of electricity for example and they would learn it in first year physics if not in jr high or elementary science classes. Ah well...

Neal Feldman December 30, 2007 8:12 pm (Pacific time)

Jason - I am a person with an opinion. Why do you think it makes no sense? Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 5:57 pm (Pacific time)

GC: Right on re expressing selves, that's feeling, not opinion in sensible, rational, reasonable format. When done from behind the tree, it avoids accountability and responsibilities, which some love while others appreciate what it does to real credibility drawn from special experience, study, and other forms of professional communication leading to a solid and acceptable form of opinion used throughout modern communication. From whence cometh your self-protective design stating anything goes by anybody without any identification ? Have you tried writing anon letter to any standard daily ? Have you attempted to take part in tv interview without ID ? Even for vote, as right you surely have, you are required to ID self, then protected by ballot done without ID --but try voting without IDing self. Could go on and on, and with that odd pseudoname you make self especially vulnerable, but here will simply seek from you any justification you can still manipulate about hiding behind that tree. "Retaliation" as reason is surely now seen, here especially (!) as simple evasion of fact and heart of matter: To refuse ID on request after first-use is to confirm something wrong and known to person as such, thus demanding accountability and responsibility for sure. For solid discussion on this covering famous first such network WELL see WIRED magazine Jan 08, p. 64.

Jason December 30, 2007 4:12 pm (Pacific time)

This commentary makes little sense. Is Neal Feldman an expert on the subject, or is he just a report, reporting what others have said?

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 3:24 pm (Pacific time)

To all: Please note lack of response from N-N to direct questions, always. Also please note mine with Re: and response, usually to the direct query, sometimes to the issue itself when that is distorted/perverted purposely by N-N. STILL awaiting any sign of acceptance by him of standing invitation to do Op Ed, with exchange in advance of draft, via editor, and publication side by side here for all to see and appreciate. IF he so sure, sharp, and fully confident, from old geek like me termed non-do'er and incompetent (among other nonentity nonsensicals), why not reply in depth, detail and with full readiness ? Topic open to agreement but suggest he respond to Nine Principles for Corporate Redesign, from Boston SUMMIT, since he then must face up to leadership world-recognized, and can hardly charge us with set-up to "embarrass" him. "Ready when you are", N-N, and will happily enhance your image via this simple if confrontational method --OR otherwise, as may now occur, if indeed your guts still remain in place for anything other than simple digestion as your behaviours here surely demonstrate.

Godsofchaos December 30, 2007 3:11 pm (Pacific time)

This is going to be a long post so get ready! "without the ability to read English, communicate in the language in its written form, do even rudimentary mathematics, demonstrate even the most basic understanding of how the country was founded and how it operates"Neal Feldman I read English, communicate in the language in its written form, do even rudimentary mathematics, demonstrate even the most basic understanding of how the country was founded and how it operates and you know why? It wasn't a public school it was because I wanted to learn those skills. I am self-taught ,I was considered a loss cause by the school system, the schools are innocent in this case because when it comes right down to it a persons education is up to the individual. Granted that some people have advatages over others but at the end of the day a person knowledge is what he invests his time in. For example one of my freiends loves cars so he studies them and knows more about cars than I do. I on the other hand love history and study it in my free time so of course I am going to know more about history than him. "Kids from other nations, it seems, by the time they graduate from high school have a better, deeper and more well rounded education than US students often do who have received a two, and sometimes four, year degree from college!"Neal Feldman You do realize most nations unlike america only allow the best and brightest to be in schools.Think China.America is one of the few nations in the world where given a chance education is mandotory and not a pervilage. "While it is used every day by nearly everyone very few can accurately explain exactly what electricity is and how it works."Neal Feldman So very few people know how anything exacatly works their called engineers for a reason. Besides America is a very specelist nation ,most people I know good in one area and they continue to study in that area. For example one of my cousins can weld,now I might know more about the rises and falls of mankind then him but if I was forced to be in a weld contest than him,even if its was mac welding,I would lose.So just because americas youth dosen't fit your perfect world of education that dosn't mean that their uneductated it just means that their educted differently than you. "Wonder why he's so afraid to tell checkable truth, via ID to editor, CONFIDENTIALLY; OR to furnish documenting image via service-connected picture, also CONFIDENTIAL."Henry Ruark Henry Ruark will you just give this angle up? He dosen't have to tell you what he does for a living he just has to express his ideology effectivlly and clearly. We do not live in the 50s now everyone can express themselfs as long as they are willing.

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 11:41 am (Pacific time)

To all: Re N-N kids producing media early on, there was some very sh(stuffy !) product then with some early-user schools stuck with amateurism marketed for money-only, without real concern for AV-standards available even then, which national association I then headed helped to write and put into operation for then-new industry. (Association of Chief State School Audiovisual Officers, firmly on record nationally.) Had to cope with that bad-product while in Oregon Ed. Dept. for more than decade. Produced six multi-county area studies, original design, re learning centers, covering most of state, used as national model in 32 other states. (Design considered equivalent to Ed.D. work on dissertation.)(Will file one with Bon as documentation.) Re kids: My No. 4 son now 40 yrs (amazing but true !) as tv-cameraman, taught self with second-hand film camera out of high school, (no rich Daddie paying his way) worked for every major Portland station. He now KVAL-TV, you can "See with own eyes" his good stuff when he shoots Oregon game in El Paso Monday 10 a.m. Tune KVAL-13/CBS and watch his work leading the broadcast team, with Tom Ward, KVAL-TV Sports, doing commentation. Sure beats kids at work in media years ago, right ? But then current realities rush right by N-N, as you can surely see for self right here reading his stuff, still UN-ID authenticated, and without any personally produced Op Eds, either. Wonder why he's so afraid to tell checkable truth, via ID to editor, CONFIDENTIALLY; OR to furnish documenting image via service-connected picture, also CONFIDENTIAL.

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 11:20 am (Pacific time)

"Really Irish" ? You think maybe I'm "really Umqua Indian" or what ? If were, would be as proud as for true-Irish. Can you still same re yr obvious blood-line ? Op Eds speak for themselves re Irish, still resisting savage-English Baron takeover...which incidentally was one of most brutal mass killings ever undertaken, as history clearly shows. That characteristic of Op Eds is main reason you still avoid any acceptance of the standing invitation here to contact editor for same, rather than sniping from behind that same old tree. Understandable reference here is unmistakable. Proud of such heritage, too, since Kennedy, FDR both from same basic extraction. Re Kerry, never met, did NOT vote for him, but can claim connection with both others through happenstance and self choice. Boston background some help, with United Press work involved including one-time interview with Father Kennedy himself. "Ver were you, Sharlie ?", sending soldiers to sure fate at the time ? Did you press any triggers personally ? Was that by choice, or were you drafted-and-forced, as were millions of others then ? Rank guarantees safety in such circumstances, as many of those millions learned the hard way...ask any vet !! If choice, does that make you "patriot" or punk ? With consequences now for world, may be a bit tougher to answer than you had originally felt. OR is conscience and heart dead now also ? Easy to tell from continued conflicts with most of us here...mutual learnings almost automatic given your inputs continued. Not much more needed to nail this one down once and for all if that is ever possible with ongoing slimy-side denizens.

Neal Feldman December 30, 2007 10:34 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson - I put nothing in your mouth. I merely show what you yourself present. It is you who try and rework the statements of others into the straw men you feebly try and do intellectual battle with. This has been conclusively proven many times already. And I have no issue with different opinions... but just because someone holds an opinion does not make it right. People can hold wrong opinions.. opinions already proven false (you are a prime example of this). Apparently you have an issue with these truths being pointed out. Why ever could that be ... I wonder! LOL! And you STILL, for all your weeping and wailing have yet to show where the ideas I presented in this article are wrong, bad ideas or would not aid toward the goal of better educated and more capable citizens. No surprise there. Ah well...

Neal Feldman December 30, 2007 10:28 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson - Ah so now you have kids that have become 'super rich'. Hmmm... seems the 'socialist system' is allegedly working out pretty good if even the kids of delusional morons such as you have shown yourself to be can do so. Right? Unless this is just more unverified fantasy between your ears as you reheat your spaghetti-Os and continue to rage at the world that continues to not fit your delusional framework. Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 30, 2007 7:55 am (Pacific time)

To all: Reference to legality here was simple disclosure warning for all concerned. "See with own eyes" in Oregon law, or consult your own attorney. Will report progress soon. Re ref. to own academics, again disclosure re personal, professional credibilities --something missing in depth from N-N. Remeber 20-times repeated invitation to do his own Op Ed, requiring open ID here ? Re state of education, the neocon cabal has been in charge for 12 years during most critical period. Slashes in funding and in suppression of unions began with Reagan and has continued ever since. Depreciation of middle class, affecting education directly in multiple ways, began and continued ever since, including kill-off of strong union activities which brough us NDEA and much more in educational progress. I know about NDEA since was there then -"Vas you dere, Charlie ?" One cannot rewrite history for own neocon purposes by simple lies and even the most canny distortion and crafty dollar-preserving perversions. Re "socialists", that is now favorite swear-word since the Red Fear of "Communists plotting to kill you !" no longer works for consummately critical and growing millions of American progressives. Re fullbore demeaning, damaging personal and professional attacks here --what else is left for old man at end of run, after conscience and heart-devouring "military career", overwhelming fact of only realities he can accept are based in 19th Century political philosophy --and nation suffering from worst neocon nonsensical policies since Depression days. Age revealed by his own admission of "debate with Sen. Morse" in Portland - which also reveals who he claims to be. But proof of pudding is in the eating --table being set nicely right now. Re "employment", will deny and defy his record until produced, if possible, right here on this channel -how much more open, honest can one be ? Then, naturally, will admit egregious mistake and lean on strong probability of early understandings and rapid own-choice leave-taking thereafter --would NOT be first time ! Record will prove continued rapid learning even then...as record here, now, via Op Eds for all to see and evaluate, surely does --while N-N still hides behind tree, with no proof of true personna at any time, in any way, by any means here or with editor. Awaiting his service photo sent to editor, surely simple proof without ID-reveal, if any such image exists at all.

Jefferson December 29, 2007 12:51 pm (Pacific time)

Feldman you and others sure like putting words in my mouth...so why do you make things up? you just cannot accept the fact that other people have different viewpoints can you?! Obviously you have had a difficult time dealing with authority and accepted modes of behavior. Have you ever considered that those above traits are what makes you so unhappy? I will pray for you Feldman. I really feel bad for you, Henry, well he is truely that old dog who cannot learn...maybe if he was really Irish? Who knows...maybe he can get with John Kerry and they can discus their future strategy?

Jefferson December 29, 2007 12:05 pm (Pacific time)

Attack mode Henry! So now because you cannot stand different viewpoints you are trying to intimidate me? That's so little, mad, angry, childlike Henry. I have broken no law, civil or criminal, can you say that? P.S. Henry those area's of study I mentioned below I have extensive background in, my children, likewise. In fact two of my sons over 15 years ago when they were in grad school were designing and producing "computer-interactive video educational software" (on old macs using hypercard and vcr's) that made them a bundle, then they got super rich when they sold their company around ten years ago. My educational background coupled with decades of experience (including extensive military combat experience) has taught me one main thing, I have just begun to learn! You on the other hand constantly tell everyone how highly educated and experienced you are, well Henry, most academics in my social and professional orbit are way beyond you. We still continue to learn, we have reasoned debate constantly, that's why people like you demonstrate just how dangerous you on the far left can get, i.e. , attempting to intimidate those who disagree with you or offer a different perspective. Sad, but nothing to me. According to my records you use to work for me Henry, years ago! Oh yeah, you did! People, Henry offers inaccurate criticism, he blames conservatives for the problems with public education. Well look who has been in charged of public education, the loony left. Heck just look at the entire urban environment and the anarchy that is developing, the high school drop-out rate and the crime rate goes up and up, and on and on...area's where conservatives are running things (look at those red counties out there, around 85% of America's land area people!)), well compare the two. Socialist's offer you just more of the same, i.e. , continued deterioration of everything from education to our infrastructure. Do not give these creatures resources!

Neal Feldman December 29, 2007 11:52 am (Pacific time)

Henry - I do not believe I oversimplify. In the context of this site 800 page dissertations are inappropriate. Add to this the fact that more often than not simplification cuts out the irrelevant nonsense that stands in the way of proper resolution (such as the issues you mention of 'group process' and the manipulations of outsiders for their own interests). I merely make suggestions that for all the slings and arrows hurled none have struck down anything I presented as being wrong, bad or not in keeping with the stated goal of increasing the quality of education as well as the capabilities of the workforce produced. Now why might that be? Hmmmm. Ah well...

Neal Feldman December 29, 2007 11:41 am (Pacific time)

Jefferson - I do not need those degrees to see common sense. And it is duly noted that through your pathetically feeble ad hominem attacks and blind neocon partisan delusional ravings that you did not show where my suggestions were in any way a bad idea... because you cannot. I guess in addition to being an active duty general with security clearances higher than the President who is also, by your own opinion of yourself, the greatest military mind the world will ever have seen, that you also posses all those degrees you mentioned as well as degrees in pretty much everything. LOL. You are a buffoon, pure and simple. I would say come back when you have something legitimate to say that does not make you look like a deluded moron but I do not believe in censorship and that would leave you nothing to say. Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 10:35 am (Pacific time)

Both N-N and Neal tend to over-simplify complex and continuing-difficult reality here. Anyone with experience in work with school boards will confirm one large problem is simply group process, heavily at fault in most board-work, and due to inherent near-impossibilities demanded of board members. Given concerted attack over 30 years by now-in-power neocon cabal, our educational system has been badly damaged, distorted, even perverted, at their special demands. Full record available via Internet sources, with links to come documenting Op Ed series now in planning. "See with own eyes", please, meanwhile, via many Internet access-points, in preparation for dialog-in-depth to come soon.

Anonymous December 29, 2007 6:35 am (Pacific time)

To all: Testing is touch-test (no pun here !) for attitude towards any learning by any learner. Here N/N again skunks self by revealing demand to depend on it for all things, thus showing his complete lack of how tests are built, why they take the shape/format/actions they do, and what must be done to make sure they reflect the realities accurately. NCLB is great example, full of overweight reliance on theoretical test-results, so bad NEA and national testing organizations combine to see that extreme changes are made. Original reliance was set up for pay-off to large test corporations as part of Bush cabal, now well documented on record in Congressional hearings, which is why NCLB renewal is in such big trouble already. "See with own eyes" via previous Op Eds in archives here, written over past year as these realities became so fully known and documented. No skunk-leaves in those, just flat fact from fully reliable national sources, per our commitment here to giving you fact for your own working brain-evaluation as free persons with responsibilities as citizens.

Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 5:29 am (Pacific time)

To all: Nonentity wrote: "...Educational Psychology, Testing and Assessment Methodologies (background in research designs is essential also), Theories of Learning, Philosphy of Education, Lesson Plan development, Computer Science in Education (not just keyboarding skills!)" Allathat and more (two years special work) was part of my preparation at IU for 40 years of production in learning media and 20 in consulting and writing, including publishing leading educational magazine and twenty years of special reports and surveys, in media field demanding practical work if one was to get paid. Where's his record ? What did he ever write, produce, survey, report, or otherwise share-findings at professional level ? Mine are out there fully recorded and referrable. His attack-mode here, by the way, is also referrable for legal action under Oregon law.

Henry Ruark December 29, 2007 5:11 am (Pacific time)

Nonentity skunks himself yet again. He demands full graduate level credibiity from Neal while ALWAYS avoiding his own, despite reasonable request to ID-self and thus establish credibilities or reveal his true nature. Re mine own, they are and have been on full record here; see STAFF. Re recent activity, still consulting/writing on these topics, and approach with both humility and full appreciation of complexities involved; see original comments. Frankly, dialog here on these tough topics can produce some sharp reflection of real public understandings; but the true answers will still come from ongoing process in the educational facilities in our colleges and universities where education is honestly studies as the process it is, demanding the best we can give our children in each and every way. Watch out for skunks here, too. You never know what neocon variety of exotic spice and vice they may have been injecting when writing--with results we've seen here now for some time.

Jefferson December 28, 2007 11:43 pm (Pacific time)

Feldman do you have any background (graduate level and above) in Educational Psychology, Testing and Assessment Methodologies (background in research designs is essential also), Theories of Learning, Philosphy of Education, Lesson Plan development, Computer Science in Education (not just keyboarding skills!) etc. ? What you wrote above is simply recycled concepts that have been around for many many years. Get some background in the above area's, you may learn something, well, maybe not. I'm sure Henry is about to embark on his skill sets, but he's been left in the pedagogical dust long ago...Rural public schools may possibly be saved, but the urban school districts have simply turned into a political monster that must be dissolved. You really don't know much about your environment do you? There are some excellent private schools that have really proven to be able to teach their students quite well. I fear that the public schools now reflect classic (modern) liberalisn: Say things that make the student's feel good about themselves. These liberals hate testing, for it immediately shows their failure! Possibly a ballot measure in 2008 election will allow for a method to remove teachers...the bad ones while also raising standards for getting and maintaining certification. Good teachers, like good cops, want nothing to do with the liberals found in the "Blue Area's", suffice, things will continue to get worse and the only winners are the socialist's, and they are the ones who created this continually worsening system. Vouchers will be more and more common, the people will demand them. Sorry Henry, but the far left is in their final death throes...Hillary Clinton's massive defeat will set the stage for a total revamping of how taxpayer funds will be allocated.

Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 7:52 pm (Pacific time)

True enough. I just want the framework such that the good boards can be good boards and the bad boards can do little or no harm. How exactly to do this... not entirely sure. But it sure needs doing. But standards need to be raised, and significantly. Agreed? And the No Child Left Behind fiasco proves several things... one size does not fit all ... there needs to be the ability to treat each kid as an individual, that unfunded mandates suck - any mandate from above must be fully funded, and you really need to watch for those who just teach to the test or who grade too easily so the students get great grades but learn little or nothing which is always a possible trap in the 'merit pay' ideas. Maybe others will chime in. Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 6:57 pm (Pacific time)

Greatest danger, to which one is still warned constantly in professional educational preparation, is to fall into trap of over-generalizing on an extremely complex subject. There are good local boards, excellent local boards, and occasionally the worst kind of local boards, too, and all three are widespread. SO there are of course the consequences in depth and detail open to wide and often too-rapid interpretation, as demonstrated constantly. What State Education agencies can do is often very limited by both law and every kind and level of tradition, as one soon discovers, as well as ALWAYS by lack of real funding to meet real needs. SO "hold the salt" and probably the pepper, too, until one has narrowed down discussion to a specific case, with full detail at hand, and both time and funds to really learn "what the h... happened" in that distorted policy or planning session. Consultant soon learns to cope slowly and very damned carefully in every instance. SO will withhold further generalization for further study of yours, and will then try to make what is written stand up on solid experience and perhaps even some recent documentation. I do hold some strong views, built from more than a decade in OD/ED and several more decades in every level from practice teaching to grad level special courses --ironically, the latter mostly in corporate management training situations for solid uses of media in group learning AND information, aka "public relations".

Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 4:39 pm (Pacific time)

Well local boards have their place and that is to give local control to some aspects... but the core basics are something even the local boards need to follow. Like the idiotic local boards in the bible belt putting in creationism (oh, excuse me... 'intelligent design theory'... ptui!) into the curriculum. I'm sorry but I do not think local boards should be able to perpetuate substandard education or to be allowed to violate church-state separation. The federal rules (where I would like to see a lot of these suggestions at) form the framework... the state puts in some more of their own... the local boards should have to follow these (or risk losing the billions in federal education dollars). Local boards have a useful part to play but unfortunately apathy for such positions has led to takeovers by religious reich extremists who use these boards to force their mythology into the schools and so in many ways I also find fault with them. Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 3:30 pm (Pacific time)

Neal et al: One fact needs to be kept strictly in mind for any realistic assessment of our educational system: LOCAL boards shape, guide, direct most education at levels that count the most. Albeit it is true states set policy and provide heavy share of funds, that local control is the foundation on which all else must rest. In a democracy, most will agree that's as it should be...and those who disagree, in most cases I have observed, have special interests in mind for that perspective. moresoon but felt that was strong enough factor to be established early-on...

Neal Feldman December 28, 2007 2:04 pm (Pacific time)

Thanks Henry. And please do not misunderstand what I said re the everyone will find some fault that makes it right comment. Obviously one can make untrue statements virtually everyone would find fault in. I like to think the article taken as a whole supports itself enough that the 'while all will find fault that is a good thing' concept applies here. And I agree I hope comments are intelligent and reasonable instead of just hostile for nonconstructive reasons. But we all know a few sources of such around here. Worth hoping for at any rate. Ah well...

Henry Ruark December 28, 2007 1:26 pm (Pacific time)

Please pardon me while I return to that stack of books and studies still piled high from Ed.D. 3 years at Indiana University. May take me a week or two to comprehend, much less confirm or otherwise, both the facts and fantasies set forth in Neal's statement. He is right on re like/dislike sure to occur for many, including me. Must disagree, though, that perhaps that is true one must therefore assume these many points contain some worth doing...education deserves better supporting shot than that. moresoon and for departure wish to thank colleague Neal for opening up one of the most painful and essential policy components, demanding national change and attention. That's what an open, honest, democratic dialog channel should DO, and comments I will hope will positive in suggestions and done while still relaying what public has a right to rely on, full attention to the needed change and funding demanded for us to even begin to reach our once-clear and strongly affirmed democratic goals, the envy of the world at one time. as he reports. We deserve that lead again, for ourselves as well as a responsibility for the leading strong democracy we should be.

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