Ukrainian Immigrant Couple Guilty of Child Abuse

Support of Ukrainian immigrant religious community fails to help parents of children who sought refuge with police.

(SALEM, Ore.) - One of the strangest criminal cases in Salem, Oregon's history, involving the criminal mistreatment of the children of a Ukrainian immigrant couple, began winding to a close Friday.

40-year old Alexander Kozlov and 39-year old Lyudmila Kozlov, were each found guilty on nine counts of criminal mistreatment involving the abuse of their children.

They refused to answer questions during the trial and even appeared aloof about the matter at times. But their reactions were anything but nonchalant when the guilty verdict was delivered.

When we first began covering the story several months ago, we were overwhelmed with comments from church friends of the accused couple, and well over 90% of everything that came in basically condemned the children and excused, even praised the adults.

The children initially sought refuge with police, asking to be removed from the home, and asking for protection from the parents, Alexander Kozlov and Lyudmila Kozlov.

The couple was accused of very serious acts of abuse with a number of physical objects over a prolonged period of time., but the last serious beating was experienced by the couple's teenage daughter who had her hair cut without the family's permission.

KATU's Melica Johnson and Gino Corridori covered the story for their evening news. It showed the defiant couple who refused the services of any legal council as they stated that God was their attorney.

Based on story comments from the Russian/Ukrainian immigrant community here in Oregon, child abuse could very well be a serious problem in many of these households. This imported piece of eastern European culture apparently devalues the role and importance of children, and it is exceedingly clear from the comments that few members of this community would qualify as child advocates.

You might agree after reading this random collection of quotes from the previous stories, that this particular community could really not have enough child advocates.

Minister wrote: "BIBLE WAY! this parents were spanking right, they are Christians and they spanked children the way bible teaches, bible says spank with ROD which meens (a stick, wand, staff, or the like, of wood, metal, or other material.), this is not called abusing children this is called spanking with love."

Vic wrote: "Those kids need to get there ass beat more!! I've been raised in a russian/ukrainian home and thank God my parents spanked me. God said to do so. They only spand there childred because they love them."

"You (Editor)And every one else who supports spoiled kids should be ashame(d)"

Kristina: "Editor.Look how much people are against the kids,and nobody is against the parents.And this is not abusing but love and care for the children's future life,which they dont understand."

"I work in the law and don't believe the police should have believed the stupid kids who are going through a stage of a teenager. I don't think they knew what would have actually happened to them and their family."

Anna wrote: "editor: these parents are not guilty!! they have unconditional love for their children. spanking ur kids is not beating them!!"

"Over that kids are taking advantage and for little thing they go and call cops for their parents saying they were physically abused. Unfortunately,the naked truth hasn't been said and soooooo many parents locked up because of the advantage that American gives to kids"

Vot Edo Da wrote: "Here its illegal to discipline your children, cuz they want criminals to grow up so police and jails would function."

Alexander Kozlov and Lyudmila Kozlov were charged with abusing four of their seven kids. One at the time of the arrests, was a small infant.

A 12-person jury returned guilty verdicts tonight after listening to testimony over the last four days, according to the Statesman Journal newspaper. They were convicted of using unreasonable physical force to discipline three of the kids, and the parents were remanded into custody after the verdict was rendered. They will be sentenced by Marion County Circuit Judge Thomas Hart December 10th at 8:45 a.m.

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Anonymous November 17, 2013 10:36 pm (Pacific time)

These parents are right but kids are stupid

Reece May 15, 2011 9:31 am (Pacific time)

Another case of DHS/CPS abusing the system! You can LEGALLY spank children in Oregon. HOWEVER it is the OPINION of DHS/CPS that you SHOULD NOT spank. They take these opinions and run to court with them and whine and complain that parents are abusing these children. WELL NO, A spanking is considered discipline! If we had more children being disciplined they would be more children graduating high school, Less children shooting children, Less child burglaries. Children are out of control and parents are afraid to tell the children NO, for fear of the children getting mad and making up stories about my parents abuse me! The DHS/CPS system is the ones mentally and emotionally abusing these children. They break down the love and trust in a family. I do believe there are parents out there that go overboard and beat their children. My husband and I had our children removed cause the 2 boys got a spanking! The police that accompanied the CPS worker told my husband and I that we did nothing wrong! He told the CPS worker "The parents are within the rights of the law on what they did." He also said "I will not make any arrests or issue a citation because they did not break the law". However the CPS case worker thought she is gonna remove the children anyways because in HER OPINION it's NOT OK. My husband and I are natural born citizen's and thought that we were under the jurisdiction of the LAW! But instead we are under the jurisdiction of the OPINION of the STATE OF OREGON DHS/CPS! My husband is now being charged with 3 criminal mistreatments. Which is 3 Felonies for spanking 2 boys. They are offering him a suspended sentence. He has to do a year of domestic violence class. No matter how many times we say there is NO domestic violence The court says one size fits all. Our children are mad, emotionally upset, mentally upset. All 3 of them had grades drop in school. Our youngest has Autism and he has regressed so much when we Finally get them back we are gonna have a lot of work to do to put their little hearts at ease. The kids know we did nothing wrong and they know that spanking is LEGAL! My question is if we did nothing legally wrong how can they do this? What right do they have? NOT ONE PeRSON CAN ANSWER THIS!

Alex March 2, 2011 4:14 pm (Pacific time)

Im from Europe, have just come across this story.
It seems outrageous how immigrants are treated in America. The judge comes from under some rock in the desert with no respect for family values/ he is an idiot and should be jailed himself for treating a mother of 7 this way/ hes a fking twat. I am willing to donate for hiring an attorney to get their sentence squashed.

Editor: Right, you are from a far less advanced place where children are probably routinely abused. So I am not surprised that you have a first-grader' interpretation of this. This 'mother' was a wretched violent criminal toward her children/ It takes no special qualification to have kids, right? Just have sex and have kids right? What the hell kind of a qualification is that? Reading this made me glad to be in America, and that doesn't happen every day.

February 23, 2010 9:33 pm (Pacific time)

Hei REDude, It is injustice to children to be raised by strangers, but not by their own loving parents.Yes, judicical system is satisfied, the stock of Criminal Corporation of America increased in value, now you can buy even more shares, and get ritcher and retire happilly.Children needs slaps and huggs from their parents, they'll regret for what they did to their parents and younger siblings.One has to be very ignorant to family values.

Natalie February 20, 2010 9:05 pm (Pacific time)

Justification, please, next time try to unlock your Caps Lock before typing. In case you don't know: using Caps means yelling and it's very hard to read. And just to remind-horns wearers are usually males.

JUSTIFICATION February 8, 2010 5:35 pm (Pacific time)

I SEE MANY OF THE RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN PEOPLE HAVE COME HERE AND EXPRESSED THEIR FEELING AND OPINIONS REGARDING THIS FAMILY AND THE ABUSE THAT WENT ON. IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY IS EXPRESSING THE SAME VIRTUAL BELIEF SYSTEM THAT IS BASED ON THE BIBLE AND THE SCRIPTURE.... REFERING TO THE "SPARE THE ROD" WHICH IS CONSIDERED THE DISCIPLINE PART OF THIS STORY. IT DOES SAY THAT IN THE BIBLE. BUT GOD DID NOT LAY OUT THE FOUNDATION TO THE EXTENT OF "IF YOUR CHILD DOES THIS, YOU HIT THEM THIS MANY TIMES... OR IF HE/SHE COMMITS THIS,,, THEN YOU HIT THEM THIS MANY TIMES.... GOD GAVE US THE BRAINS TO USE AND UNDERSTAND AND JUDGE FOR OUR SELVES.... AND NOT GO BEYOND THE MEASURES OF DISCIPLING YOUR CHILDREN...... WHO DECIDES WHAT "DISCIPLINE' MEANS AND TO WHAT EXTENT IT CAN BE TAKEN???? THAT IS WHY THERE ARE LAWS IN EVERY COUNTRY AND EVERY COUNTRY HAS DIFFERENT MEASURES OF THOSE LAWS.... IN AMERICA THERE IS THE LAW THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SPANK YOUR CHILD WITH AN OPEN HAND AND NOT LEAVE ANY MARKS ON THE BODY.... THATS THE LAW HERE.... THE REASON FOR THIS LAW AND WHY IT CAME INTO THE LAW... IS BASED ON THE REALITY OF ABUSE AND HATRED THAT IS BEING COMMITED ON CHILDREN OF ALL AGES. THE LAW IS THERE TO PROTECT INNOCENT KIDS THAT DONT HAVE ANYBODY ELSE THAT THEY CAN TURN TO FOR HELP..... IN THIS SITUATION THE 14- YEAR OLD GIRL WAS SEVERLY WHIPPED WITH A TELEPHONE CORD BECAUSE SHE CUT HER LONG HAIR AND THAT WAS AGAINST HER MOTHERS BELIEF SYSTEM...AND I SAY HER MOTHERS BECAUSE THE MOTHER TESTIFIED IN COURT THAT IN THEIR CHURCH... THE RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS THAT WOMAN DO NOT CUT THEIR HAIR... WELL EXCUSE ME.... WHERE DOES IT IN THE BIBLE SAY THAT WOMEN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO CUT THEIR HAIR??? THATS A BELIEF THAT IGNORANT PEOPLE THEIR SELVES HAVE ESTABLISHED...... AND BECAUSE THE DAUGHTER AT 14 AS A TEENAGER WANTED TO CUT HER HAIR,, SHE GOT WHIPPED WITH A TELEPHONE CORD....... AND NOW THE MOM IS USING THE BIBLE TO JUSTIFY HER BEHAVIOR.. IS NONSENSE!!!!!! IN THE VIEW OF ANY CHRISTIAN BELIEF SYSTEM.... OR VALUES!!!! I HAVE NEVER READ IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT SAID... FOR CUTTING HAIR, DISCIPLINE YOUR CHILD... OR YOU HUSBANDS... IF YOUR WIFES DONT OBEY YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE THE MAN IN THE HOUSE .. THEN BEAT YOUR WIFES... AND IN REALITY.. GOD FORBIDS PHYSICAL PUNISHMENT TOWARD WIFES,,, DISCIPLINE IS GOOD IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING..... BUT BY SHOWING VIOLENCE IN THE HOME IS NOT DISCIPLINE... THESE KIDS ARE EMOTIONALY DESTROYED... AND PSCHOLOGICALLY ARE NOT THERE..... BECAUSE OF THE ABUSE THAT HAS WENT ON..... IM RUSSIAN MYSELF.. AND AS A SOCIAL WORKER WITH MANY YEARS OF EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE, I KNOW ONE THING...... PROVEN IN MY OWN LIFE AND BY STATISTICS IN THIS COUNTRY BY SCHOLORS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD... THAT MAJORITY OF TIMES PHYSICAL DISCIPLINE HAS A LOWER EFFECT ON KIDS THEN BY DISCIPLING YOUR CHILDREN WITH LOVE, COMPASION, TALKING TO THE CHILDREN EDUCATING THEM AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER... .THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE AS WELL IS REFERING TO..... SO FOR ALL OF YOU THAT ARE SITTING HERE BLAMING THE KIDS.. FOR CALLING THE POLICE.... READ THE BIBLE MORE OFTEN.... THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA... WAS ESTABLISHED ON THE PRINICPLES OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS THAT WERE GIVEN TO MOSES BY GOD...... AND THE BIBLE TELLS US TO OBEY THE LAWS OF THE SOCIETY BECAUSE IT WOULD BE A CHAIOS IF NOBODY FOLLOWED THE LAWS...... NONE OF US AGREE WITH ALL OF THE LAWS BUT THATS OUR PERSONAL CHOICE AND WHAT WE DECIDE TO DO WITH THAT.... BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND AS WELL THE CONSEQUECES OF NOT OBEYING THEM.... IT SEEMS LIKE MANY OF THE IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT AWARE AND EDUCATED REGARDING THE LAWS OF AMERICA AND THE JUSTICE SYSTEM. MOST OF THE RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN PEOPLE IMMIGRATED TO AMERICA BASED ON THE RELIGIOUS PERSECUTIONS.... THAT IS TRUE... BUT THE FACT STILL REMAINS THAT MANY OF THESE CHILDREN ARE BEING RAISED IN in an extremely controlled and sheltered environment, raised with obnoxious religious outlooks, and told to act like everything is perfect in public no matter how much PAIN they are put through. MAYBE PARENTS DO NEED TO REALIZE THAT THEY HAVE THEIR OWN SET OF BELIEFS AND THE CHILDREN THAT ARE GROWING UP IN AMERICA ARE CLASHING WITH THE 2 CULTURES AND THEY ARE STARTING TO HAVE DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS ON EVERYTHING... AND WHO IS IT TO SAY THAT PARENTS ARE 100% CORRECT ALL THE TIME JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE PARENTS...... ???? I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN MANY OF THE SO CALLED CHRISTIANS ACT ONE WAY IN CHURCH AND THEN AT HOME THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PEOPLE DOING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT IN THEIR OWN CHURCH... AND IM NOT LABELING EVERYBODY... THERE ARE ALWASY THE FOX'S THAT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PART OF THOSE CHURCHS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE... IM JUST TRYING TO SAY.. THAT PEOPLE WAKE UP AND REALIZE THAT IGNORANCE CAUSES MANY FAITHFUL PEOPLE TO TURN AWAY FROM FAMILYS, HOMES, ETC......THERE ARE MANY THAT WEAR THOSE FAKE MASKS... AND MAJORITY OF THE WOMEN WEAR THOSE "KASINKI" ON THEIR HEADS..... AND THINK THAT THOSE WILL DELIVER THEM TO HEAVEN.... BUT IN REALITY MAYBE SOME OF THESE WOMAN ARE JUST COVERING UP THEIR HORNS...... SADLY SPEAKING....THIS MOTHER TESTIFIED IN THE COURT ROOM IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.. THAT SHE WAS WHIPPING THEM BECAUSE THEY DID NOT LISTEN ... SO IF THEY CONTINUED NOT TO LISTEN AND YOU SEE THAT THAT KIND OF DISCIPLINE THAT BASED ON HER THEORY GOD COMMANDED.... WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO DO THAT... IF ITS NOT HELPING... WHY DONT YOU TURN TO OTHER FORMS OF DISCIPLINE... BUT THE PROBLEM IN THE RUSSIAN COMMUNITY IS LACK OF COMMUNICATION WITH THEIR CHILDREN...... THERE IS NOT ENOUGH TIME THAT PARENTS SPENT WITH THEIR CHILDREN EDUCATION AND TALKING ABOUT STUFF... FOR EXAMPLE... THE SEX EDUCATION AMONG THE RUSSIAN COMMUNITY.. THESE ARE THE SAME CHURCHES AS THIS ONE INVOLVED THAT IF YOU MENTION THE WORD SEX.... YOU WILL NOT BE TOLERATED IN CHURCH NOR AT HOME... AND HOW ARE THE TEENAGES SUPPOSED TO LEARN AND WHEN THEY GET PREGNANT THEN ITS TOO LATE.. AND THEY ARE LOOKED DOWN AT.. BY FAMILY, CHURCH THE WHOLE COMMUNITY... THESE ARE THE TOPICS THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED WITH PARENTS AND THEIR CHILDREN AT HOME.. AND EVEN IN CHURCHS...... TO MAKE SURE THE CHILDREN UNDERSTAND.... AS WELL ABOUT VIOLENCE, DRUGS AND ETC.. BUT WHO TALKS ABOUT IT... THESE KIND OF DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED IN THE HOME NOR CHURCHS....ITS SAD TO SEE SO MANY BLIND CHRISTIANS THAT ARE USING THE "BIBLE" TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS... SO TO YOU PARENTS..... you are NOT straightening out your kids or making them better by hitting them. you are merely making them more violent and angry, and NOT TO be surprised when they turn on you. Treat your children with love and care, not keep them in constant fear of a beatdown.

Nessa December 23, 2009 11:00 am (Pacific time)

Editor: Nessa, your comment was moved to the newer story.

Lexx December 23, 2009 1:04 am (Pacific time)

Editor: Lexx, your comment has been moved to the more current story: The Debate Over Child Abuse in Oregon's Ukrainian CommunityTim King Salem-News.com

Editor December 17, 2009 8:03 pm (Pacific time)

Your comment has been moved, there is a new story about the Koslov family, visit the story here: The Debate Over Child Abuse in Oregon's Ukrainian Community - Tim King Salem-News.com There are too many comments on this story, please transfer your discussion to the new story, thanks.

December 17, 2009 3:26 pm (Pacific time)

Andrei,
I would not be posting my comments if I did not care. I have never posted a comment on any other story before. I do understand where you are coming from. I think no one wants to see children suffer. And no one wants children and families separated. Kids should stay with their parents. We parents should stick together help each other. If you figured out what works for you and your family that is great you should share your experience with others. I'm constantly reevaluating my parenting style. And something that worked a year ago does not work now. Some thing that my parents did may not work for me. And each of my 3 kids are different. So one thing will not work for all. I'm very sad that Christians are getting such a bad rep when it comes to their kids. We do need to have more talks in our churches about it to avoid a case like this. It makes me want to go hug and kiss my babies....no matter how much they drive me to "insanity", I cannot wrap my mind around harming them. It is tragic and could have been avoided if parents had sought some kind of help when the warning signs were there....Let's all have a heart and pray for this family. For them to win their appeal and get their kids back. They can learn how to be better parents. They can change.
Editor. Thank you for posting my comments. You are a good man. And Natalie you are such intelligent woman, please follow this case and I look forward to your posts.
God Bless.

Natalie December 17, 2009 2:13 pm (Pacific time)

Andrei: Life in prison.. hmm... gives me the impression, that your childhood was a real mess. There's a good book out there called Bad Childhood-Good Life by dr. Laura Schlessinger. I would strongly recommend it, before it's too late. Otherwise, Abused becomes the Abuser, physical violence turns into a verbal one. One point, I agree though-it's possible to raise a child without a twig. It just requires a lot of SELF-discipline and patience. Like with you-amazing transformation just in one day. Thanks. That's more like it.

andrai December 17, 2009 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

great article , great job on this ,ur a great American ,, And this needs to be told cause i came to American 1991 and remember my parents beating us all , trying to cover it up by making us skip school so the gym teacher or someone wouldn't see it , and I still cant believe it , And would never say I deserved it ,Great job on reporting , I cant thank you enough cause there are thousands of kids that are being abuse everyday helpless helpless , and dont know where to turn,this might offend the Old country folks but we must not be scare to stick our nose in to this subject , and lat homeland security look in to this ,, and leave peacefull Americans alone,, sorry for the lng comment , im done ,, wont comment again ,, but great job and i wish all the law Enforcement would be awareof this to , thanks , thanks thanks

Emily December 17, 2009 1:35 pm (Pacific time)

Andrey, How can we be so unfair? Why are you so sure that the Kozlov kids are telling the truth and that the parents are lying? As previously mentioned, at the teen age, kids think they are much smarter than their parents and don't realize what they are doing or saying. I remember myself. Please don't blame the Ukraineans or other nations. There are different people in every nation. I grew up in Ukraine and my parents did not beat us or abuse us. Yes, there are all kinds of abuse-stories about Americans, too, as well as Ukraineans. That doesn't mean we have to blame whole nations. All of my family grew up in a very loving and caring atmosphere, don't know of any abuse with any of my cousins or anyone far-related. I am sorry that you had a tough childhood. By commenting this way, we are making others think poorly about us. Let's not do that! That is a dangerous thing to do! Thank you.

December 17, 2009 7:41 am (Pacific time)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoBMiXuifcg check out this video UKRAINIAN TO A UKRAINIANS AND RUSSIANS

andrei December 17, 2009 7:39 am (Pacific time)

Svatlana , I do mean life in prison , have you no heart ? If i beat a adult like this with my fist just start punching them and then use a rock or anything i can think of just because im mad and had a long day at work , would u not call the cops on me? you would kids are kid and all kids do stupic stuff all the time American and Russian , but beating and kicking punching ur kids and u think its ok just because they say they are Christians ? come on ,,I hope when these people go to prison someone will show them what abuse is , when u are helpless , and a child . Just because ur a Parent that dont give u the right to beat a child no matter what religion u believe in , Im Ukrainian and know that in Ukrain or Russia it is acceptable to beat ur child even if they are hospitalized in Ukrain , police will not do anything to the parent, OH and u know what to all of u that say that all American kids end up in jail because their parents didnt beat them , go to any prison in the US and ask anyone of these people they will tell u that their parent beat or abused them ,ok, im Ukrainian , and this is a good example for u UKRAINIANS AND RUSSIANS BALARUS AN MOLDOVANS , that if u beat ir kid u will be in jail , PERIOD . AND if you think ur strong and wont to beat some one come and try it on me ,,,

Natalie December 17, 2009 12:37 am (Pacific time)

Good luck in making some friends. We fear the unknown, so, hopefully that will help you see, that those stubborn slavs are not so scary after all, when you get a chance to know them closer.

Editor: Natalie, thanks. I don't think it is a matter of scary, but I will keep what you said in mind!

Natalie December 16, 2009 8:03 pm (Pacific time)

I'm not from Oregon. Sorry. Besides, my professional skills have nothing to do with writing stories. I was quite sincere about finding a local slavic newspaper. They deal with stories, and not overly busy, so shold be able to help you.

Editor: Natalie, thanks. I only know that we have a large daily audience and we would like to help in some way. Reporting news often makes us distinctly popular, or just the opposite with people. I will keep my eyes and ears open for options, thanks.

Natalie December 16, 2009 3:15 pm (Pacific time)

Interesting... First curse word coming to a Russian mind is a sex term. I guess, this is because sex was considered something dirty for many years. Anyway, people, try to use English when expressing your thoughts. If you want to address only Russian-speaking, you can do it on Russian sites, since Editor is not able to translate your curses in English due to their poor grammar. And saying I'm a loser, because my parents were losers is just an excuse. We don't change our life, because that's a familiar and in a twisted way comfortable situation for us.

Editor: Natalie: Any ideas for positive stories from the Ukraine community here in Oregon? I am open to ideas, I would like to show a better side of things. You can write to me at tim@salem-news.com Thanks, Tim King

Svetlana December 16, 2009 2:51 pm (Pacific time)

Andrei~ you don’t mean that when you say that you wish they would have got a life sentence. I'm sorry for what happened to you and I'm proud of you that you are a great father to your kids. I hope you dont use that kind of language with your kids. God Bless you and your family.

Sara December 16, 2009 9:39 am (Pacific time)

This is a sad story. But,it is good lesson for all Russian/Ukrainian community. Be honest the parents are guilty. We all know the Bible not teach that way to discipline the kids.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE KIDS .and ashamed for people who misinterpreted BIBLE,law IN THE COUNTRY WE LIVE.people THINK YOU HAVE TO BE SO ANGRY AND CAN NOT CONTROL YOU SELF TO ABUSED THE KIDS LIKE THAT IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH Bible AGAIN. pol Ice HAD A STRONG EVIDENCE TO CONVICTED THEM.

Svetlana December 16, 2009 9:11 am (Pacific time)

I'm Ukrainian/American mother of 3. I will be very honest I don’t know the family but this case has been bothering me so much that I’m not able to sleep. I'm shocked that this is actually happening in United States of America. Ukrainian people came here for freedom of religion and better life for their kids. My grandfather was send to prison for 10 years for being a pastor in USSR. This is very simple Persecution.. Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. I don’t know all the details of this case but I will tell you that this mom cooked 3 hot meals per day for her family their house was clean and kids had clean clothes. Justice system DID not work in this case. The baby was just couple of days old when Lyudmila was arrested. I truly think that she already received the worst punishment possible. Worse then death. When you have a baby your milk comes in and all you want to do is feed and hold your baby. I pray to God to be with her and help her in this horrible time. People we need to be out raged. This is an attack on a family. This judge is not just and I don’t know what his reason for his actions. Separating kids from parents is wrong. Any parents will tell you that there is nothing in the world we would not do for our kids. They are our life and we love them unconditionally. These kids will be divided in foster care and they will not know their language or their heritage. Or have a relationship with each other. This is very sad they will realize later that they have been lied to. This is not in the best interest of the children. I really do think all they needed is counseling and support. Take classes, I’m sure they will be more than willing to do what ever it takes to get their kids back. Let me just be clear I’m against child abuse. But disciplining your children that we must do. How can we judge her for spanking her kids if this is what she truly believes in? I have taken many classes to help me dealing with my kids. My mom or dad never repeated them self’s. When they asked you did. Now I ask my son to take out the trash 3 times before he does it. And the third time I'm yelling. It is not peaty some times. I think if we put a magnifying glass to our worst parenting moment we will not be proud of. I know it is not easy raising kids. Especially here. I come from a family of 10 kids. And our parents spanked us. I did not like my mom when I was a teenager and now we are best friends. We have an amazing relationship. Our family is strong and we are all contributing to society and our communities. I remember when growing up I would wake up in the morning hearing my mom praying for us. Every day she would start with oldest and finish with youngest. When we would eat my mom ate last making sure that we all had enough food, I did not notice this growing up. My mom did not speak English and she did not understand the way things worked. I thought I was a lot smarter then her. But now I know different. Please please please let’s pray for his family. I believe that God will resolve this. They will win their appeal. And they will be reunited with their kids. They made mistakes but this is not justice, this is not right. Thank you! "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. Mark 13:12

andrei December 16, 2009 7:48 am (Pacific time)

I am Ukrainia and have been beat with everything u can imagine ever since i can remember ,, My parents where "Christian" and i still can get over the fact that parents can be so mean and abusive to their own kids (sukee V vse ) i have kids now and I could never beat my kids like they did , never ,,these people have 10 kids and cant take care of them with love , so they abuse them shame on u Ukrainian Churches , u brain washes sukkee ,, ya b vas vsax nazat v ykrainoo povisilav ,, Even the Unchristian dont beat there kids like u do ,, OMG i wish they would have got a life sentense , and this is to lesson to all of u kids abusers life in prison for u sukee

Emily December 15, 2009 10:14 am (Pacific time)

Let's warm up our hearts and start feeling one for another. You can't understand the pain of loosing a child, before you have one. Everyone commenting, who do not have children, please stop. You don't know what is expecting you and how you will discipline your children. It is not easy. Of course you need to love your children and never punish out of anger, but Americans also use the so called "ROD" on children. Let's not blame it on a nation, but rather start feeling for and supporting each other. Afterall, we are all humans! Thank you.

Ruslan December 14, 2009 7:46 pm (Pacific time)

Kozlovs got 7 years and three months in jail each. Also remember they're not US citizens which means they will be picked up by USCIS (immigration) after they serve time, then put in immigration prison for standard 12 months and deported back to Ukraine with a great chance not to ever see their children again. (unless they themselves visit them). Anyway, the parents did not believe until the last day that they will be sentenced to jail time. What would church leaders say now who misled them into representing themselves? If they had a lawyer and pleaded guilty, I am sure they would have gotten away with the probationary sentence and may be their kids back!? I hope the church helps them find a good attorney for an appeal. Who knows perhaps their sentence will be reduced. I am personally very saddened by this situation and feel for the parents ... Some one help this family... If anybody is intrested to view the court ruling the link is http://search.statesmanjournal.com/sp?aff=1100&skin=100&keywords=kozlov

RFDude December 12, 2009 10:07 pm (Pacific time)

RE: Oregon Reader "Do you know what line of work the father was in?" I heard from slavic church member that Oleksandr Kozlov worked at the production facility, making dog collars, and leashes. Ludmila worked part time cleaning houses.

angelina December 12, 2009 2:36 pm (Pacific time)

i was also raised in a family of 10 kids..dad was really set on that kind of punishment and mom was soft,kind, and tried to stand up to him. now after having two kids of my own...i do believe in spanking..but i think if you are still spanking after 5 years of age or before...i think u should already know by then that ur doing something wrong! u have to constantly talk to your kids about what they have done wrong and show them lots of love and forgiveness on top of punishment. and especially for beatings over cutting your hair...i mean come on..really!? and the boy getting suspended from school over fighting..what if he was constantly being picked on at school for being russian or whatever. kids want to fit in, in school..and especially if you feel unloved or misunderstood at home..its tough. needless to say though..i do feel as if they could have given them family counseling and living in seperate places for a while instead of time behind bars...i think that couple needed lots of help possibly because such a stressful situation with 7 kids..

Natalie December 12, 2009 12:54 am (Pacific time)

My final thought: To my understanding, the sentence was supposed to set and example and to encourage children to report abuse. It had quite a contrary effect. You don't have to believe me. Go to slavs teens in any school now, and ask them (both christian and non-christian). Here's why: Sometimes, we wish our parents be punished, who doesn't? Sometimes, we get very angry with them, wishing somebody in authority would educate them by force, but we would rather deal with an angry parent than send him, or her, or both for that long to jail. That's the message they received. Like I said, you don't have to believe me.

Oregon Reader December 12, 2009 12:37 am (Pacific time)

THAMOS, Thomas, whoever... If you are an American citizen, I would be extremely shocked at our education system. You certainly do not write as if English is your first language. You can not string words together to form a complete sentence. I really hope that our education system has not failed you. I have a question for the Editor: Do you know what line of work the father was in? I did not read anywhere what he did for a living and wonder if unemployment led to any of the problems for the family. I also did not read if drug or alcohol use may have been any factor in the treatment of the children.

THAMOS December 11, 2009 10:32 pm (Pacific time)

Oregon Reader, dont tell that. I AM AMERICAN from ADAM. I NEVER LEFT THIS COUNTRY. JUDGE IS *****

Natalie December 11, 2009 5:19 pm (Pacific time)

To the Editor:

You don't, others do. You are and intelligent person and can use Google much faster than me, and see for yourself.

Natalie December 11, 2009 2:36 pm (Pacific time)

Looks quiet up here. I guess, everybody wishing for long years and rape in prison are happy now. One thing I have to say though: There is an old saying that could be translated as Never say I'll never be in jail, and never say I'll never be in need. Those 2 things could happen to anybody. Hope, they find a foster family, that is willing to keep the kids together. In any case, they need help.

Editor: I don't think anyone is happy, and it is very likely that they will not have to deal with sexual assault in the corrections system, I sure hope so.

Natalya December 11, 2009 3:19 am (Pacific time)

Hello everybody! I am from Ukrainian Family and i live in USA for 12 years . So i am really understand this sad story. In our country really different culture. To punish kids and even really hard to do it was normal. My Father was punish me with branches too. And didn't think it is abuse, a knew my father loved me and i was wrong, i brooked the rules.He punished my brothers more then me and very hard, but not for every little things, because all kids doing mistakes. All my brothers and me loved and love my dad a lot!!! It was normal for that time and that country.every one in my class in school was telling story haw he was punished. But you know what - all my brothers(4) now really good men. All here in USA , All have big family's. All together in our family are 40 people.NO one did drugs,no one is taken alcohol, no one is smoking, no one bin in jail. We haw no divorce's. All my brothers have own business .And we are thankful for our parents. I am youngest in my family and i am raising my 3 kids. It totally different how my parents did . different time, country. We have a lot different ways to raise our kids and first is our LOVE.I am really sorry for Kozlov Family.They didn't find write way to raise their kids. Kozlovs need to take some parenting classes, and bible classes too. Bible says allot more about love then about punishing. I know they love kids but they didn't show it enough and i think not enough attention for kids too. My brothers wore '' abused'' too but they will never do that Kozlovs kids did. So i just asking do not judge Kozlov very strong. It really simple people , they don't know how to talk to judge. They wonder to raise good kids with old fashion . They need a Chance to try different way, they need help!!! And one more thing - it looks really weird to you punish kids for cutting the hair,but i know the people they believe its sin. So when we are kids we have to do what parents say. But on this time kids are very ''smart''

judgement is coming to America December 11, 2009 1:17 am (Pacific time)

Let me tell who should take the place of this unfortunate couple: the American mother who drowned her own 5 children, one by one in theit own bathtub; the mother and father who smoke in the same room where their infant lies; the mother whose empty head doesn't realize that the baby needs socks on their little feet when it's below 0 outside! Are you people blind? Are you longing to see a good family broken and destroyed because YOU yourself never had a normal family? Is it revenge, is it jealosy, is it hatred that is planted into American minds? You people are brainwashed, look at yourselves and your children! They will either sue you, betray you or forget that you exist when you're sick or get old, and all that thanks to your "don't give a damn about what you do in your room" kind of raising style. I am speechless at how disgustingly low we have fallen as a nation when it comes to defending TRUE family values. A real family must have authority and discipline. Good kids understand light discipline; nasty kids need to be shown who pays the bills in the house and whose food they eat! Do any of you even realize how hard those parents have to work to provide for their children in this country? They put their heart and soul into getting the best possible things, clothes, cars and food on the table. I am one of 7 children as well and I know how my parents, due to poor english and their age, have to clean other people's homes and scrub their toilets in order to provide for me and my siblings. They disciplined me in the same way as Kozlovs, which I often hated and didn't understand, but I see now how thankful I am for it to them. I will kiss the ground they walk on and kiss the cracked dry hands from the chemicals, cooking and dish-washing of my mother, and my father's hands which never cease to work, take care of our cars to save us money for maintenance, his tired eyes from driving the truck for weeks in a row in order to pay the bills and buy us nice clothes. Kozlov's dad was doing just the same for his kids! CAN YOU AT LEAST TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH THESE PARENTS LOVE THEIR CHILDREN? Parents who don't care about their kids' futures will never beat them and will not be hated by their rebellious teenagers but ironically those untouched children are the ones who drive their 'loving' parents to nursing homes!!!!! They DO NOT value a mother and father figure the way we do who were surrounded by love and care of our parents. Let's face the FACTS(as some really like to point out here because that was the term that the typical American population saw on the media and God forbid we don't believe the TV). The Christian slavic families are the ones that get attacked most for caring about their children's choices and behavior. We are the same crowd who stand against homosexuality and all immoral and destructive to our nation laws. I see an interesting trail here...think and say whatever you want, you're welcome to call me a lunatic but I will fight in any way I can to help this family and may God's wrath and judgement fall upon those who are reading this with mockary.

Oregon Reader December 10, 2009 10:06 pm (Pacific time)

Thomas, those of you, who come to this country for its freedoms and then bad-mouth its citizens and the very country, make me sick to my stomach. If you do not like what this country stands for, then you are free to leave. No questions asked. But, we do not all have to believe in the same religion that you apparently do. This is OUR freedom, too. You are free to want to believe what you want. You are free to say what you want. But that same right goes to each and every one of us. Does America have some problems? Yes. But this case is not about America. It is about a religious sect that supports a level of abuse that the general society says is wrong. No matter how many people say it and no matter how many times it is said, you folks do not seem to understand. You continue to go off on tangents, blaming the judge and DHS. I read elsewhere how the children were hypnotized or drugged. There was no proof of this, either. I am very sorry that the Kozlovs are going to be spending so long in prison. It seems excessive, but I did not follow the case. I guess the abuse was more severe than even I imagined.

Thomas December 10, 2009 7:06 pm (Pacific time)

WHO IS OREGON READER, OR READER YOU JUST DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT AMERICA ITS FALLING DOWN> GOD BLESS YOU, YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN

Thomas December 10, 2009 7:06 pm (Pacific time)

WHO IS OREGON READER, OR READER YOU JUST DONT KNOW MUCH ABOUT AMERICA ITS FALLING DOWN> GOD BLESS YOU, YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN

Natalie December 10, 2009 5:53 pm (Pacific time)

This verdict just broke my heart. I don't think kids themselves wished that to their parents. At least, I want to believe that. Hope, they appeal, and use a professional attorney.

Anatoliy December 10, 2009 12:44 pm (Pacific time)

Kozlovs got 7 years and three months in jail each. Also remember they're not US citizens which means they will be picked up by USCIS (immigration) after they serve time, then put in immigration prison for standard 12 months and deported back to Ukraine with a great chance not to ever see their children again. (unless they themselves visit them). Anyway, the parents did not believe until the last day that they will be sentenced to jail time. What would church leaders say now who misled them into representing themselves? If they had a lawyer and pleaded guilty, I am sure they would have gotten away with the probationary sentence and may be their kids back!? I hope the church helps them find a good attorney for an appeal. Who knows perhaps their sentence will be reduced. I am personally very saddened by this situation and feel for both parents and their children... Somebody help this family...

Oregon Reader December 10, 2009 10:47 am (Pacific time)

A seven year sentence seems somewhat excessive in this case, however without remorse, I guess the judge found no other option to show, clearly, how disappointed he was in the actions. This really is a sad case.

Natalie December 9, 2009 7:58 pm (Pacific time)

Read all the comments, and I, personally, take neather side. This story is just sad. With any outcome for the parents tomorrow, the relationship in the family is broken (even if they get their kids back by some miracle). That's just strangers living under one roof. I'm very disappointed at Kozlov's advisers for not taking a professional lawyer. Their supporters should've helped finding attorneys, if they didn't trust court-appointed ones. From what I saw, they looked like dead meat in front of the lion. Come on, people, that was no wise at all to say at least. Here is how I see it: Parents punished kids too strickly and should aknowledge that, but I don't think they are such monsters, as painted by the media and some people here. I believe they saw the wrong path their teenagers started taking, and didn't know how to correct that. As for the kids, I feel sorry for them too. Looking back, I say, teenagers actually need some strict directions from adults but, they tend not to listen to weak parents, that only use punishment without showing love. On the other hand, they sounded very strange at the trial. Some answers didn't make sense at all. So yeah, I belive they were either manipulated, or still were trying to

Anatoliy December 9, 2009 1:11 pm (Pacific time)

I am not sure where you people find many places in the Bible about not sparing a rod for your child. The old testament says that only in the Proverbs by Solomon. However, if you look at Solomon's life, (a thousand wives and concubines) and other sick things in his daily life, he really did not walk the talk... Also, in the first books of Moses, there was an instruction from God to stone the children to death if they do not respect their parents. Why would you not also stone your children when they do not listen to you? No? Because Christ told us to love even our enemies? Exactly! I do not mind discipline, teaching the kids right from wrong, spending valuable time with them, etc. However, the way it is done in some Slavic families is not right. It is done because of shame. What would others think about my children and me as a parent? The girl cut her hair. Fine. But everyone in the church knows that family does not allow that, so the parents panic and physically punish the kids because they are ashamed of the fact they will be viewed as parents who cannot manage their own children. How do I know? My wife and I were raised in such households... What we all need is some good parenting classes about how to raise our kids and also psychology classes to learn what physical hitting/striking does to a child. Regardless, I still believe this family could have been saved if they had a good attorney and admitted to their wrongdoings, putting aside their pride and false beliefs for the sake of their own children. Let's hope the judge will give them reasonable sentence... Who knows, perhaps there is still just a tiny chance for them...

Oregon Reader December 9, 2009 4:39 am (Pacific time)

Dear Anatoliy, I do not think anyone rejoices in this case and its outcome for the family. I am certainly sad at the results. I do know that if the parents pleaded for mercy and asked for help becoming better parents, the courts would probably shown mercy and even the prosecutor would have offered a reasonable PLEA BARGAIN which would have reduced the charges to mere misdemeanors. That is how the system operates. The problem is that the parents stubbornly refused and and all help from attorneys and from the judge. It is that obstinate behavior that offended many people, I think. Is it too late for the family? I don't think so. But I do not think these parents are going to "get with the program". If they do not, then nothing good is going to come from this spectacle. The unusual support of the church for the negative behavior portrayed in this trial is disturbing. I think that is another issue that the court will have to grapple with. Without remorse on the part of the parents, I do not see how this family will ever be reunited. The parents and the church have learned nothing about the American system, or its values. I am fearful for the other families and their children who may still be suffering the fate that Kozlovs' children had to endure.

Taras December 8, 2009 11:02 pm (Pacific time)

Hi everyone! I think we all need parents no matter what age we have. When we are born we can’t make any steps without parents guidance. They teach us how to walk and speak. When we growing up we can’t make any good and right decisions and choices without parents guidance, and our parents usually role model. When we teenagers we look for any other guidance but not parents. I think that is cause of many huge problems and mistakes in life. I think children made huge mistake and I feel very sorry for this family. I wish children could recognize how huge their mistake because growing up and being raised without parents or by other parents is not easy, especially when it‘s very hard time in life when in some situations you just need somebody’s help, attention, and understanding and that somebody usually the one and the only our parents. I think all children need to learn patience because teenage age last only couple years and afterward you become adult for the rest of life ONLY FORGIVENESS CAN BRING REAL PEACE IN HEART !!! May Lord help this family!

Unknow December 9, 2009 12:04 pm (Pacific time)

These kids are teenagers whom obviously have no respect for their parents. If the girl's parents didn't let her get a haircut than she should have listened. I myself am a Christian and yeah in the bible is says that you should hit your kid w/ a rod, and to whom that aren't Christians, than you don't understand that hitting your kid w/ a rod or spanking them is called discipline. Those kids really are messed up bc now they just ruined their parents lives, their brothers and sister's lives and their own lives. Their parents are in jail and the kids don't feel guilty what so ever. I personally think that the parents should be found Not Guilty bc all they did was discipline their kids. I DON'T feel sorry for those kids what SO ever (expect for the little baby).

Manitobius December 9, 2009 9:07 am (Pacific time)

Whatever you feel about religion or physical punishment the corporal punishment is still legal to be practiced at home in all US states. This case is more about minor abuse of power (we know it is quite common among other law enforcement agencies in North America (tazering people, dragging them on the floor etc). Normally the law enforcement officers get by with minor reprimands or a light disciplinary action and are still in the force.
So in the light of legality of the corporate punishment we can consider a parent as a law enforcement officer at home (enforcing the laws of home and country) addressing a young criminal (Kozlov's boy was caught shoplifting at least once) so we have a case of excess of power. So from the perspective of legality of the corporal punishment in the state of Oregon the Kozlov's parents should have the same treatment as a policemen who while arresting a criminal caused the similar bruises.
Also as a police force normally is very protective for their members, normally they conduct their internal investigation should not the same way Kozlovs be treated in their community? Or this is just American double standards? Should Kozlovs children wait till they become young criminals and prostitutes and then receive much harsher treatments from the law enforcing agencies than what they could received at home if their parents just adjust their lawful right of corporal punishment?

EDITOR: Your double standard idea is not valid: Parents and Police do NOT have the same rights, entitlements, or expectations. We DO NOT consider parents "law enforcement at home". All people that break the law go to jail, crimes against society (beating children) are not events to be handled by civilians in some "internal investigation". Strangely, you clearly value adults far more than children. That is incredibly sad. Here in America, we cherish our children, and will protect them from being hurt. Punishment is very different than abuse.

Anatoliy December 8, 2009 8:56 pm (Pacific time)

O.K. I have read most of the comments and frankly refuse to take any of the sides. However, I agree that the parents went too far and should have been educated the proper ways. I also agree that spanking and beating usually ruins relationships and in most cases damages the child permanently in a psychological way. Regardless, the parents should have accepted their wrongdoings and should have tried to work out some kind of plea bargain, took some parenting classes, etc. To punish them in this way (they both face lengthy sentences) is not fair. Think of the father who watched his daughter die because he did not believe in doctors! What did he get? 60 days in jail and his kids back!? Where was justice in that case? Yes, these poor people are ignorant and have no clue about many things, yes, they had too much confidence in themselves, and yes, they misinterpreted the Bible in many ways, however, there is a way to teach them. It's too late now... The family is wrecked, the kids are taken away. I would like to find out where the kids will be in some ten yeas? Also, I do not understand you people who are so joyful and overly excited that the parents had been found guilty... and you call yourselves that "you turned out to be alright"? Where is your compassion? What kind of person will be happy when someone is hurt and wrecked? Yes, the parents did wrong to their own children. Yes, they their methods were harmful. Yes, they should not have listened to their church members who had no clue about US judicial system! However, was there a way to give these parents a small chance to change and learn about more efficient ways to bring up their children? I do not know? Anyone does?

Anatoliy December 8, 2009 8:35 pm (Pacific time)

I want to leave a comment but not sure if I need to register

Editor: No need to register Anatoliy

RFDude December 8, 2009 6:32 pm (Pacific time)

RE: Peter "..they moved to US for religious freedom..." They moved to US in 2003 for better life. USSR collapsed in 1991, and with perestroika came restoration of religious freedom. Yes Peter, you are free to believe whatever you want, but i am 100 percent sure, it was definitely physical abuse by parents. Why i'm so sure? I was raised by my "christian" mom (we lived in russia). Who used to beat the hell out of me, most of the times with a broom or wooden rolling-pin;). Sometimes i deserved it, but most of times she beat me for watching tv at my friends place (tv is a screen to hell:D) When i was 14 i finally put stop to all that "discipline" by locking my mom in a bathroom for several hours. She tried to hit me few more times after that, but soon realized - i am not a little kid anymore. Kozlov kids asked for help and did the right thing. I feel for them, this must be hard to see your parents arrested and thrown in jail.

Katerina December 8, 2009 7:57 am (Pacific time)

Very interesting. My mother was raised by two Ukrainian immigrants who came to the states after WWII. My grandmother looks uncannily like the woman here.

It is very sad to think of a cultural link to child abuse, but I’ve always suspected one. My mother definitely has narcissistic personality disorder, and I feel it began with abuse that she sustained at the hands of my grandparents.

I have a feeling that there was a lot of slapping in the face or body out of anger, because I experienced this at the hand of my grandmother who took care of me when I was little. I know that from my experience of being partially raised by my grandmother that there was a lot of unnecessary spanking, always done out of anger. For example, instead of delighting in my wanting to help clean, if I made an attempt (which I know can be messy with a small child), she spanked me instead. What kind of message was she conveying to me?

I believe my mother was left alone as a toddler sometimes while my grandparents traded shifts working at factories. My grandfather was a blazing alcoholic. My grandmother would hold, “God will punish you!” over my head, and I’m sure over the heads of her children. There was a tremendous emphasis on "shame" and no talk of menstruation, or any normal functions like that. My mother said she never liked dolls – I think she just never got one. I have a feeling she was never cherished by her parents.

When my mother got pregnant at 19, her parents disowned her, and even though they took her back, my grandmother never had a kind word to say about her in front of me.

In retrospect, it is so obvious *why* my mother became a teenage pregnancy statistic. I'm not saying everyone who is abused becomes pregnant at a young age, just that the psychological reasoning is clear.

Also, my uncle, who served in a non-combative role in Viet Nam, had a history of being "bad" in school, getting kicked out of the Catholic high school, did drugs, got divorced, and to this day, lives with my grandmother. You don't think some of the harsh abuse he received had anything to do with his success in life?

I say these things because I am disturbed by the comments of "friends" of these people in the article, who talk about how "bad" the kids were. Modern psychology explains a lot! This seems so apparent - I can't believe some people are still ignorant of this.

I see that my grandparents had a very primitive, medieval way about raising children. There was no introspection on their part.

Later my grandmother said how she at times hated her own mother – and so the cycle continued.

Incidentally, my stepfather, also an emotionally abusive narcissist, was raised by immigrant parents who arrived after WWII. His mother was German, his father Russian, and a blazing, abusive alcoholic. I believe he was terrorized by his father (he was beaten for not getting A's for example) because of how harshly he punished me. He obviously didn't want to put any time into making sure I grew up with healthy self-esteem and security. My stepfather also had a daughter when he was young and completely abandoned her after he met my mother.

Peter December 8, 2009 2:05 am (Pacific time)

I don't think they abused their children, That is a make up story by the media, some thing like swine flu,frog flu or duck cough, so people would think that they are guilty. By the way, this people were persecuted by the communists in the former USSR,they went trough harsh times, they moved to US for religious freedom, but now they're treated same way like communists treated them, no truth no rights.I don't think they're afraid of time in prison it's some thing else,their children future.I am not neither Russian neither Ukrainian but in my heart there is a great respect to this people... Well You might say, common Peter what are You talking about??? They broke the law, Well what about those laws who brake the law??? I am talking about, about, that all we make mistakes in our lives, and all we were teenagers and we've done stupid things and later we were sorry, time Heals all wounds, but the scars are forever. This children later they will realize that they made a big mistake, and I am sure that their loving Parents will forgive them despite any circumstances, and welcome them back home... I believe that is not right to Judge between Parents and Children. LORD Have Mercy on this Family!Amen! With Love to all People. Thank You! please post it. Thank You.

Sandy December 8, 2009 12:35 am (Pacific time)

They BEAT their kids. That's not love, it's hysteria and cruelty. Beating children is not punishment, it's ABUSE. They are bad parents. Are you?

i December 7, 2009 5:16 pm (Pacific time)

Dear Arielski, i am sorry for my previous comment,-i was very heartbroken then at that moment, when I learned that 5 mnth old baby was taken away from parents. I was so upset, heartbroken, and now wish I could take my words back. please excuse my previous comment; I didn't want to hurt You or anyone else. may God Bless You. Truly, when I found that You have grown your own kids and grand kids, I know that you deserve respect.I know that that was a hard task in which you succeed. I would like to ask everyone, Please find some little bit of compassion for that parents, children, and that little baby...I think some of you may know that our old generation was raised that same way, these parents probably didn't learn the better way, + with no any English to read articles in "PARENTING" on disciplining, -these all added up...I am strongly against disciplining in anger, but some oldies learned that the hardest way. Please find a little bit of compassion in your heart for that destroyed family... for a minute... your heart is soft, not hard as a rock. How could we help the poor family to learn their mistakes? -I bet they already learned... I really want that family to be together.I want Lyudmila to be instructed by child development specialist on disciplining and ministers in the Church to help them to be a better family. I want kids to be reunited with momanddad. Do You remember how Vova wanted to be with his momma? Please , people, find a compassion in your heart, because your heart is not hard as a rock, it is soft. I know that. Mother's tears, 5 month old baby's tears, kids tears...Adoptive mom didn't cary all these kids under her heart, neither did she born them; she will not be able to feel them , even if she gets them everything they want. Just teach the Real mom to be more gentle, to be a better mom and she will be. Kids don't know where are their parents. they think they are at home... If anyone can find a little bit of compassion in your own heart, ... and think about destroyed family, crying infant... for a minute... please pray for all of them... they are suffering.. all of them...

Oregon Reader December 7, 2009 1:39 pm (Pacific time)

OK, "I", let's assume that depression caused Lyudmila over the edge. What about her poor, little husband? Was he too weak to control his home and was he too weak that he, too, had to whip these poor kids? This is no excuse. AND, the abuse lasted a lot longer than if it were due to her recent birth. You people are going to lose more of your congregation if you do not accept the truth and stop trying to minimize the treatment those kids received. This family should be deported as a strong statement that this behavior will not be tolerated - in this country; in this state; in this county; and, in this city. I wish those of you who do understand what went wrong could counsel the ones who continue to fight against the law and make excuses for these "parents."

I December 7, 2009 10:25 am (Pacific time)

I am here for strongly AGAINST Child ABUSE!!!Having been read comments, news from different sources, people; I've got to conclusion that these parents were either merely strict, or as the mother lyudmila said,under the postpartum depression;and punished her kids way too much - neither of which is right; of course to do that is wrong! but they had to evaluate that case more closely ( these facts, like kids were under some drugs needed to be evaluated by some professional doctors); then , we might get a different outcome, we might get a whole picture painted in other colors; and of course, the readers would avoid such a terrible, terrible pain. the worst story i've ever read! Lyudmila may need counseling/teaching on disciplining kids ( by either local professional specialist on child development; or even their local Minister in her Church - the Church is against Child Abuse); if that was depression after the labor - she needed medicine to help her overcome her depression;(some people avoid all possible drugs, even if they need them).I believe that she was punished way too much.

Oregon Reader December 7, 2009 9:35 am (Pacific time)

Peet, Peter, thomas, Jessica and others: I am tired of reading about all the money that all the outside parties are getting and the corruption that is unsupportable. I also do not like non citizens trying to use our constitution as support for abusive behavior. You people who were not born here and do not possess citizen documents do not get to cry foul just because one (or two) of your congregation gets busted for abusive behavior. Unless and until these parents accept that they broke the law and that they need to change their behavior, then nothing has been gained from all the dialogue. I think it is sad that, after a day of church, you people still defend the behavior that was found, after a full trial, to be against our laws. WE have MANY people who turn out just fine in this country without being beaten by their parents, so to argue that this behavior is the only way to rear children is preposterous. OK?

Peet Sacramento December 7, 2009 6:50 am (Pacific time)

Links I do not understand one thing who the judge should defend the persecutor (hes body) or the constitution, he's acting against this people like he is getting a big piece of cake from some body, or many this is a side job. Some body really wants this kids, "why not". Good Family, Good Parents, Good Kids (except they made one wrong step in their life, You know what I am talking About.). Drug free, Alcohol free, Crime Free, Healthy kids, Well Educated, I believe that the big fight is for the children, because some body is paying big money for them. He is defending a law which was made to destroy families, this is a Crime, Are there any laws which stop this type of crimes. If there is a Good Samaritan Attorney who can Help this Family, Please do This for God's Grate Name, and I promise that You He will Bless You in all Your Ways Always. link:http://search.statesmanjournal.com/sp?aff=1100andamp;skin=100andamp;keywords=kozlovandamp;x=0 please post my comment,Thank You

Peter December 6, 2009 9:45 pm (Pacific time)

The state is Destroying This Family for money sake.Why? I think there are many other different ways to collect money from the federal government, Like Grants, good grants which would help the society, family's . Family is the strongest institution of the society, Strong family ties make the society stronger, Healthy Family - Healthy Society. Family means Man+Women = Children = Our Future, Good Children = Good Future. We are not a Nation of zombies. We have God Given Rights, since first Day of Creation. This Parents are not Guilty, This family is wounded by man made laws.

Peter December 6, 2009 9:46 pm (Pacific time)

stephen December 6, 2009 6:45 pm (Pacific time)

In closing my post on this article, I do want to note that we do have to watch the judicial system. There is much corruption in our judicial system, and even tho I think what these parents have done is not appropriate, I have also found much corruption as some of the "please post my comment" people have said." Be aware, and always question authority. On another note: I am ok with cold and outdoors, but the cold today actually hurt! brrrrr. I can only WISH there was global warming. :-)

thomas December 6, 2009 1:31 pm (Pacific time)

watch some videos about angryyyyyyy judge. HE HAS NOOOOO right making fun of that family. she said she was tired after birth and judge told that o you were tired beating children! sooo not fair he has no rights making fun of them. Just beleive me that they are not guilty. so far i figured out. on sites and on the phone. dont forget that lots of parts. they deleted on the videos because my friend were in that court room all this days they know the truth the the judge just need money ! PLZ visit this site http://search.statesmanjournal.com/sp?aff=1100andskin=100andkeywords=kozlov

Thomas December 6, 2009 1:27 pm (Pacific time)

watch some videos about angryyyyyyy judge. HE HAS NOOOOO right making fun of that family. she said she was tired after birth and judge told that o you were tired beating children! sooo not fair he has no rights making fun of them. Just beleive me that they are not guilty. so far i figured out. on sites and on the phone. PLZ visit this site http://search.statesmanjournal.com/sp?aff=1100andskin=100andkeywords=kozlov

Oregon Reader December 6, 2009 10:27 am (Pacific time)

Stephen, your posting about the meaning of the words in the Bible are appreciated. The definition of "rod" to be one of guidance to children makes far more sense then one of harm. Children, indeed, need much discipline. But they do not need to be beaten because they want a hair cut or because they take coffee from the kitchen; both of which were reported in this case. I pray for the children that they are not harmed in the long run for having to take such a drastic step. I know of children that have not been physically harmed by their parents, but harmed through neglect. Such cases are much harder for children to be taken from the home. I hope these fundamentalists are praying for guidance in church today. I hope that they wake up from their stupor and learn to progress.

Anonymous December 6, 2009 7:47 am (Pacific time)

Here is a petition to stop this barbaric practice: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/america39s-behind--ban-the-physical-assault-of-children For those who would like to have a moderation discussion on this topic there is one on Yahoo Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bancorporalpunishmentofchildren/?yguid=394447248 The more we work together we sooner we can end countless sufferings. For those Christian posters, consider what Jesus said about hiiting children: But whoever shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6

stephen December 6, 2009 6:27 am (Pacific time)

I went from memory last night on my post, and this morning decided to research it further and make corrections. Matthew Henry (1800's). His rod and staff, alluding to the shepherd's rod under which the sheep passed when they were counted (Lev. xxvii. 32), or the staff with which the shepherds drove away the dogs that would scatter or worry the sheep. It is a comfort to the saints that God takes cognizance of them (he knows those that are his), that he will rebuke the enemy, that he will guide them with his rod and sustain them with his staff. The Gospel is called the rod of Christ's strength (Ps. cx. 2) Forgive last nights errors, altho, got it pretty close from memory, its been awhile since I read it. Do you know, the very first schools in America were started basically for kids to learn how to read the Bible? I know it has been edited many times by those in power, that would use it to gain more power, but the heart and soul of the words are still there.

Arielski December 5, 2009 11:01 pm (Pacific time)

"Jessica" wrote December 5, 2009 3:12 pm: "Arielski, You go against God, who kept You for so long and who gave You everything You 've got! Be careful before You judge that mother! Her tears, Blood will come upon your head! The Way You treat others, You will be treated! What you say, how you judge right now, soon You will reap what You saw! May God save You!" Thank you for confirming my suspicions that you and those with your beliefs, are mentally ill. My God is a God of infinite mercy, compassion and loving-kindness. I will pray that you come to know the True God, not your fake God of anger and punishment that you use to threaten other people.

Lawson December 5, 2009 9:14 pm (Pacific time)

Poor mother? Are you kidding? Thank goodness for prisons for people like her, and let it be a warning to all of you that believe beating kids is ok. You will be joining your friends in prison if you don't quickly change your ways.

Kharma Bites December 5, 2009 9:17 pm (Pacific time)

Congratulations, justice has prevailed! Now the children will no longer be beat with branches from the back yard.

Felicity December 5, 2009 9:11 pm (Pacific time)

Beating children is WRONG. God does not approve of anyone hurting his children. They don't belong to you, they are just a temporary gift. They always belong to God. Hurting children is a SIN.

Oregon Reader December 5, 2009 7:47 pm (Pacific time)

Oh, I does Jessica realize she is being plagiarized by someone with the same IP address and same spelling habits? Jesus, please help these people, for they know not what they do! Stephen, yours is the first post that actually addresses the Bible verse. I am not a student of the Bible, but if your interpretation is correct, these people using it as support to beat the HELL out of their children have some explaining to do when they meet their God.

Oregon Reader December 5, 2009 7:41 pm (Pacific time)

Editor, my guess is that Mindy and Rose are the same person! please post my comment! please post my comment! Good Christian comment, there! I was always taught to love, not wish for vengeance! please post my comment! please post my comment! ;-}

Editor: Finally getting with the program eh? I'll post your comment! I'll post your comment! LOL

Ani Blbci December 5, 2009 5:19 pm (Pacific time)

I think it is easy to see why Ukraine didn't want these people. They refuse to accept a threshold where physical discipline becomes abuse. They also refuse to use a spell-checking program when they attempt to communicate in English.

Jessica December 5, 2009 3:12 pm (Pacific time)

Arielski, You go against God, who kept You for so long and who gave You everything You 've got! Be careful before You judge that mother! Her tears, Blood will come upon your head! The Way You treat others, You will be treated! What you say, how you judge right now, soon You will reap what You saw! May God save You! editor, Please post my comment!

Mindy December 5, 2009 2:57 pm (Pacific time)

God will bring all that Mother's Tears and all her Blood upon the head of all these who are prosecuting POOR MOTHER! God will speak directly to Judge , deputies, Juries, Menonite mom and all these who are against that family. Editor please post my comment! may God Bless Everyone! whatever you do to others will come back to You, please remember that! Editor, please post my comment!

stephen December 5, 2009 7:03 pm (Pacific time)

by the way..the way our government is acting, lies, torture, etc, expect MUCH more of this happening in the future. And worse. When the leaders of this country lie, decieve, manipulate, brainwash, expect it to flourish to the average person.

stephen December 5, 2009 6:58 pm (Pacific time)

Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. The rod and staff David spoke of were instruments to keep his sheep out of danger. They were to guide, not to beat with. The staff was to guide through wisdom, and the rod was to keep enemies at bay. Altho, as the jessica's and mary's say, maybe our judicial system needs a bit of the staff and the rod themselves? My dad was a "spare the rod, spoil the child" type person. I just thought he was an angry man that would not take the time to love, teach, and spend time with me. It was easier to just beat me. And, I know of NO beating that did not come from anger and anger alone. Mary/Jessica, I understand your opinion, and agree with some of it, but maybe its time you look into your own hearts? Harming children physically does one of two things. 1. makes them so submissive they are not a person. 2. Makes them rebel. Teach your children love and grace when they are young, they will not forget. I was a single parent for over 15 years, and both of my kids, with their ups and downs, are understanding what I taught them when young, and I did not have to beat them.

Oregon Reader December 5, 2009 5:49 pm (Pacific time)

Wow, I can't believe how many comments this story has gotten so quickly both here and on that "other", inferior, site. I don't like to see this become an ethnic thing, as I know American Christians who beat their kids using the same verse to support it from scripture. I, having posted a previous comment under a name that poses a question, studied Russian in college and know many Russians. This really is a church doctrine issue. And, I expect that Ukrainians do not like being called Russians anymore than we Americans would like being called Canadians or Mexicans.

I have a Ukranian relative who married into the family, and his church is different than the one these defendants attended, but it, too, is a "strict interpretation: church that believes that the men make all decisions and women and children are under his rule. I wish these groups would become less harsh in their interpretations, but I know they believe anyone who is not a member of their (respective) churches is going to visit a warm place upon death.

Editor: Oregon Reader, thanks for making several good and valid points. Ukraine not Russian, very true. Americans are guilty of the exact same thing, that is true, though I would hate to see it. Thanks for your thoughts.

Ti jsi Idiot? December 5, 2009 5:24 pm (Pacific time)

Rose, I suggest that you and your church people, who do not like the laws of our country, please leave and return to your old country. That is where you belong if you cannot follow the laws. Do you understand that no one believes you people who say that it is OK to use force and then say that no abuse occurred at all, that it was all lies? You can't say BOTH things, because it shows that either you are not very smart, or that you are trying to confuse us. Make things really simple and leave the land if you can't follow the laws of the land.

Rose December 5, 2009 1:39 pm (Pacific time)

No, there was no justice! God will deliver that Poor Mother who bore and gave birth to Seven Children! So many mothers in USA who are destroying their kids in their wombs ( these kids suffered more, yet it is under the law to abuse unborn child!) You, dear , mislead people of Oregon, You don't know how teens could lie! remember yourself (you probably can't remember yourself in your teens).These teens were lying, they were programmed to lie, they were under the influence of the meds, they looked like they were under hypnosis; even the girl, when asked what color was the jacket of the judge, said :"I don't know!" -they were told and conditioned, and were supposed to look only at their Mennonite mom, deputies. when Real Mom told: Look at me my dear child! - Judge didn't let the child to look at her Mother!It is unfair! God will work in the life of Judge, Juries,detectives, deputies,and all others, who did broke what God has had created for years!Mom was not allowed to tell her child(whome she hadn't seen for 4 month)that she loves him/her, and wishes them all the best! Judge ordered to drug out that poor woman out of the court room!The were drugging her out like a dog, with no any sense of moral! Mom told that she was under depression (postpartum)when that happened only once! People of Oregon, look at the picture of these kids- they have bare arms with no any signs of abuse/bruises. Yet kids testified they were constantly with the bruises. - they were told to lie. These pictures of bruises were created with the computer - anyone, who knows little bit of computer technology could do that! These three youngest wanted to go to be with parents, however, judge, menonite mom were mentally pushing these kids to say only what they were told to say! That mom needed - just a counseling to be more gentle to her kids! People wake Up! America turned away from God! Editor please post my comment! God bless everyone! May God work in Your Life, my dear reader! EDITOR, PLEASE POST MY COMMENT!

Ersun Warncke December 5, 2009 4:24 pm (Pacific time)

This kind of behavior is unacceptable, but I think that there should be some recognition of the cultural differences between Americans and recent immigrants. I am from a partially immigrant family, and so I know that the perspective for people coming out of Eastern Europe is totally different than in the U.S. From my observation, the German perspective (my family) is that life is brutal and so a proper education involves a high level of brutality. I imagine the perspective of the Russians and other Eastern Europeans to be similar. Personally, I view this outlook to be flawed. As evidence I would only point to the various episodes of the Germans and Russians slaughtering each other over the past century. In America, there is no context for understanding a world where your neighbors decide, seemingly at random, to pillage your community. The survival skills for that world are very different from the survival skills for our peaceful society. The education of children differs accordingly. As a society, if we truly believe in peace and non-aggression, and we act accordingly, then we should enforce this as a law. However, as we welcome new immigrants we should show an appropriate level of understanding for how our cultural perspectives vary from theirs, and act accordingly.

Ersun: I agree completely with your assessment of cultural differences. But you use the phrase “our peaceful society”, "our" of course, being in your context American society. That phrase is really only accurate if you say “our peaceful white society”. Daniel

Mike December 5, 2009 3:48 pm (Pacific time)
Sam, there is a difference between punishment and abuse. I hope you realize that. And no, we aren't going to be punished.
Jessica December 5, 2009 3:12 pm (Pacific time)
Arielski, You go against God, who kept You for so long and who gave You everything You 've got! Be careful before You judge that mother! Her tears, Blood will come upon your head! The Way You treat others, You will be treated! What you say, how you judge right now, soon You will reap what You saw!
May God save You!
editor, Please post my comment!
Editor: I will, and I realize that some of you are sharing the same Internet line, but I need to state that this single IP is showing names, Jeremy, Jessica, Love Mindy Rose and Mira. You are welcome to comment here, and I know you are angry about what happened, but your comment borders on threatening and I need for you to be careful. God isn't going to be mad at anybody for saving those kids from an abusive, totalitarian household. God loves people, God wants peace and not violence, God created the earth in his image, God sent Jesus here so that man would have salvation. People who abuse children are sick and they need help, whether it is jail, prison, or mental health care. It is absurd that a family believes bringing old ways to a new place is acceptable. The United States has been an intact country for a long time with a developing culture that values children. Kids count on their parents to provide love and nourishment and education and values. The back of a hand or whatever instrument is used in abuse, is not a reflection of the world that God sent us here to live in. Perhaps in old Russia it was necessary to be very hard on children because people were dying in purges, murdered by the million by their own government, the Soviet Union. During that hard time, the U.S. was growing and making mistakes along the way, but we didn't have all of the problems that happened in eastern Europe, essentially starting with the Bolshevik Revolution. So these families move away from eastern Europe, they come to the United States where freedom is valued, and they want to treat their kids like barbarians. Well, that is not how it works here. We don't beat our children into submission. I hope other families, like most of those who write these comments in defense of these parents, can learn from this and stay out of jail themselves. Every person who abuses a child needs to be dealt with and they need to become educated as to how one can raise a child without resorting to extreme violence, and since God isn't running around in person dealing with these situations, he has the local authorities here in his stead and they intervened and took those abused kids out of the abusive house, which is what they should have done. Moreover, child abusers are not well regarded in the American correction system, and if they are not careful they will deal with more problems there. This society, especially that 'Minister', needs to get it through their heads that this illegal and immoral behavior is not favored by god or local law, and through local law, God will punish the abusers. I am trying to put it into words that might reach you, I hope I accomplished that.
Mindy December 5, 2009 2:44 pm (Pacific time)
God will bring all that Mother's Tears and all her Blood upon the head of all these who are prosecuting POOR MOTHER! God will speak directly to Judge , deputies, Juries, Menonite mom and all these who are against that family. Editor please post my comment! may God Bless Everyone! whatever you do to others will come back to You, please remember that! Editor, please post my comment!
Rose December 5, 2009 1:39 pm (Pacific time)
No, there was no justice! God will deliver that Poor Mother who bore and gave birth to Seven Children! So many mothers in USA who are destroying their kids in their wombs ( these kids suffered more, yet it is under the law to abuse unborn child!) You, dear , mislead people of Oregon, You don't know how teens could lie! remember yourself (you probably can't remember yourself in your teens).These teens were lying, they were programmed to lie, they were under the influence of the meds, they looked like they were under hypnosis; even the girl, when asked what color was the jacket of the judge, said :"I don't know!" -they were told and conditioned, and were supposed to look only at their Mennonite mom, deputies. when Real Mom told: Look at me my dear child! - Judge didn't let the child to look at her Mother!It is unfair! God will work in the life of Judge, Juries,detectives, deputies,and all others, who did broke what God has had created for years!Mom was not allowed to tell her child(whome she hadn't seen for 4 month)that she loves him/her, and wishes them all the best! Judge ordered to drug out that poor woman out of the court room!The were drugging her out like a dog, with no any sense of moral! Mom told that she was under depression (postpartum)when that happened only once! People of Oregon, look at the picture of these kids- they have bare arms with no any signs of abuse/bruises. Yet kids testified they were constantly with the bruises. - they were told to lie. These pictures of bruises were created with the computer - anyone, who knows little bit of computer technology could do that! These three youngest wanted to go to be with parents, however, judge, menonite mom were mentally pushing these kids to say only what they were told to say! That mom needed - just a counseling to be more gentle to her kids! People wake Up! America turned away from God! Editor please post my comment! God bless everyone! May God work in Your Life, my dear reader! EDITOR, PLEASE POST MY COMMENT!
Arielski December 5, 2009 1:20 pm (Pacific time)
How much do you want to bet the Kozlovs will get a pitbull defense attorney to appeal their conviction? Or, if God really was their defense attorney why don't they just accept the verdict was "God's will"? I hope Marion County social services and public schools are alerted to the high risk of child abuse in families of this so-called "church".
samuel December 5, 2009 11:42 am (Pacific time)
i think that the parents were doing the right thing. you guys dont realize but GOD will punish you for what you guys are doing. he told us through the bible that we should spank are kids to discipline them.
Winder December 5, 2009 3:57 am (Pacific time)
Great story, Tim!

I'm glad they weren't tried by a jury of their like-minded child abusing ignorant immigrant Ukrainian "peers".you can delete this and the top part too, if you think it's too inflammatory. I sure hope all Ukrainians aren't like that to their children. If so, there's a lot more trials coming!
RFDude December 5, 2009 3:17 am (Pacific time)
Justice prevailed! Thank you juries, thank you prosecuting attorney. Hopefully now parents from iucecb churches in usa will think about changing method of discipline for their kids. Then they wouldn't have to bring God as attorney to the trials.
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Ukrainian Immigrant Couple Guilty of Child Abuse

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